Clerical issues

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.

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Bill Jurens
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Clerical issues

Post by Bill Jurens » Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:12 pm

As most readers know, earlier in the year contributor Alberto Virtuani was banned from participation until 01 March, 2020. I have since committed to some travel plans which will render my regular access to a computer somewhat problematical during the first two weeks of March. This will quite likely slow, or perhaps even temporarily halt, my timely control of the board during that period.

Mr. Virtuani has been banned several times in the past. My experience has been that his return, though quite productive at first, has often been associated with a fairly rapid subsequent spiral into offensive and belligerent postings in both directions. For that reason, in an attempt to ensure the maintenance of good order on the board, I have, with considerable reluctance, as a cautionary measure extended Mr. Vituani's ban until 15 March 2020.

I must emphasize that this extension is purely clerical in intention, and does not represent some sort of further admonition of Mr. Virtuani's behaviour. nor does it reflect any intention to in some way stifle or submerge his viewpoints on various and sundry topics.

Insofar as recent discussions on this board have been rather quiet and proceeding slowly, I do not think that the two-week extension to Mr. Virtuani's ban will have any significant slow-down in the progress of research and discussion. I invite Mr. Virtuani to return to the board on or after 15 March, and beg the understanding of participants for this purely clerical decision to extend the ban for a brief additional period.

Bill Jurens
as moderator.

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Alberto Virtuani
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Re: Clerical issues

Post by Alberto Virtuani » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:17 am

Hello everybody,
Bill Jurens had the impudence to write: "....I have, with considerable reluctance, as a cautionary measure extended Mr. Vituani's ban until 15 March 2020.... "
I can easily imagine what an interior conflict and what a reluctance for this unrepentant hypocrite. :lol: :lol:

"I must emphasize" (to use his pompous wording, hiding the vacuum inside) that my decision to leave forever the forum had already been taken before his kind above measure.
I have taken it after the long vile silence of the webmaster in answering my questions to him (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8347#p84945) regarding the "moderator" morale stature, despite I have asked him several time a position.
Also, the above "cautionary measure" confirms that Bill Jurens is here only to try to defend his (already lost) reputation after he acted as a copycat, because my only most recent attacks before the last ban were directed against his actions, not against other forum members. His personal indefensible interests makes him unsuitable as moderator (and abject as a person), but apparently this is ok with Jose Rico... bad for him.

&: "...I invite Mr. Virtuani to return to the board..."
while I kindly invite Bill Jurens to go to hell... :evil:

I will never come back until this forum will be free forever (I just hope very early...) from the presence of such a disgusting (read his above post) and coward (discussing with me not using his pretended "leadership" but only abusing of his undue unlimited powers as moderator :kaput: ) person.

His above blatantly hypocritical post, falsely polite, just confirms my choice.

Addio, COPYCAT !

"It takes three years to build a ship; it takes three centuries to build a tradition" (Adm.A.B.Cunningham)

"There's always a danger running in the enemy at close range" (Adm.W.F.Wake-Walker)

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Re: Clerical issues

Post by pgollin » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:14 am


Needless to say Bill, I (at least, and I suspect many more) fully support you and am treating the above post as it deserves.

Thanks for your attempts to keep the board balanced and working properly.

( I won't repeat this under either other of the two posts, but the same spirit applies. )

Good luck, and good health.


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Re: Clerical issues

Post by wadinga » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:42 am

Fellow Contributors,

Today is an excellent day, as the second perpetrator of a concerted and co-ordinated attack on truth in historical research has chosen to leave this site thus restoring its value and reputation as a place where real facts and occurrences are discussed in a civilised manner. I consider the wise appointment by Mr Rico of Bill Jurens, a hugely respected author and editor as Moderator to have been instrumental in bringing this happy result about.

I say co-ordinated because the tissue of fabrications and distortions began some time ago with the writings of one Enrico Cernuschi in Storia Militare where Messrs Bonomi and Virtuani became his willing acolytes, utilising his same technique of denigrating those sources and official histories which contradicted their fantastic creations.

Mr Cernuschi was proud enough of his technique to expose his "investigative" style in another site. Readers of the prolonged debate here will note the close similarity to views expressed here. All British accounts are apparently lies composed by cover-up artists and cowards motivated solely by propaganda purposes and maintained against all "reason" for nearly 80 years afterwards. All accounts by Axis sources are not similarly tainted. A pseudo-scientific basis quoting (but distorting) the laws of physics, mathematics , geometry etc is utilised to try and give fantastical invention a veneer of reality.

Here is Mr Cernuschi's account
first let me underline I'm an amateur and not a professional. The most authoritative book of mine is, according critics, the one I wrote with Bagnasco as it's considered the defintive study about the Italian navy during World War Two.

My system is to check the British and Italian versions of the same action or campaign, to identify by confrontation the differences and to dig noth at the PRO and in the archives of the Uffico Storico della Marina Militare in Rome for the documents of the time.

The rules, after more than twenty years of such an exercise, are always the following ones:

there are at least two or, often three British versions quite different among them and wrote within days or, at most, months, from the episodes;

they are all victims in a measure increasing with the time of the same war propaganda orders to minimize or suppress their own losses or damages

these versions did not change after the war

the Italian proceedings are much more professional

the final result is a picure quite different form the available versions which are ofter in contrast not only with the timing and even places of the actions, but are conflictual with teh laws of phisics too.

In a word ther's the necessity to write almost everything from the begining as the critical and material value of the British stories (HMSO ones included) is nera the absolute zero.
The Italian reports, of course, are not 100% correct, but they allow an useful confrontation with the many British tales. The final result of this system grants a much more probable picture and supply clues for furher searches.phisics too.
It appears that Mr Cernuschi's extreme opinions and distortions of reality became too much even for the owner/editor of Storia Militare and they have recently fallen out, previously being co-authors on projects. His distortions and agenda to remake history have been the subject of appalled reaction by knowledgeable Italian naval enthusiasts for some while.

Messrs Bonomi and Virtuani had their initial account of Denmark Straits published in Storia Militare, but their most extreme fantasies about British cowardice, conspiracy and cover-up apparently await a follow-up publication somewhere, by someone prepared to accept this revisionist twaddle.

Those alert to international politics will have noted the disturbing rise of right-wing extremists in Italy and their re-imagining of historical events to suit their current political objectives as part of their tactics to mislead the voting populace.

Despite the threat of Coronavirus, today is an Excellent Day. I wish good health to all members, current and former of this forum, in the current crisis.

All the best

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"

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