Tacking & Wearing

[Byron Angel]

Hello All,
I recently posted/hosted a lengthy discussion on tacking and wearing of 18thC men of war.

If interested, go here - http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=571506

Byron

[paul.mercer]

Hi Byron,
Most interesting, I suppose how quickly it can be done depends entirely on the training of the crew and the competency of the officers, presumably in the days of sail the RN were some of the best!
With regard to the word 'Spanker', is that what is often referred to as the 'Mizzen'?

[marcelo_malara]

Hi Byron,
Most interesting, I suppose how quickly it can be done depends entirely on the training of the crew and the competency of the officers, presumably in the days of sail the RN were some of the best!
With regard to the word 'Spanker', is that what is often referred to as the 'Mizzen'?

Yes! The fore and aft sail located in the mizzen mast. But it is not named "mizzen sail" because that would be a square sail located in that mast, which most ships of the sail era lacked, and came in use on the finals years of the sailing ship.

[Byron Angel]

“Driver” or “Mizzen Driver” IIRC.

Byron

[Steve Crandell]

Hi Byron,
Most interesting, I suppose how quickly it can be done depends entirely on the training of the crew and the competency of the officers, presumably in the days of sail the RN were some of the best!
With regard to the word 'Spanker', is that what is often referred to as the 'Mizzen'?

Yes! The fore and aft sail located in the mizzen mast. But it is not named "mizzen sail" because that would be a square sail located in that mast, which most ships of the sail era lacked, and came in use on the finals years of the sailing ship.

Huh. I dispute that most ships of the era lacked square sails on the mizzen. If you google "frigate" for example, you will see a ship with square sails on the mizzen mast and I believe that was common for a ship rigged vessel. Most naval battles you see in paintings have ships with square sails on the mizzen. Or by era, are you talking much earlier?

[marcelo_malara]

Hi Byron,
Most interesting, I suppose how quickly it can be done depends entirely on the training of the crew and the competency of the officers, presumably in the days of sail the RN were some of the best!
With regard to the word 'Spanker', is that what is often referred to as the 'Mizzen'?

Yes! The fore and aft sail located in the mizzen mast. But it is not named "mizzen sail" because that would be a square sail located in that mast, which most ships of the sail era lacked, and came in use on the finals years of the sailing ship.

Huh. I dispute that most ships of the era lacked square sails on the mizzen. If you google "frigate" for example, you will see a ship with square sails on the mizzen mast and I believe that was common for a ship rigged vessel. Most naval battles you see in paintings have ships with square sails on the mizzen. Or by era, are you talking much earlier?

Hi! No, they did not use. Look at this engraving, there is not even a furled sail in the mizzen yard, which in fact was not called so but cross jack yard. What were in use were mizzen topsails and mizzen topgallants, but no mizzen sails.

[Steve Crandell]

Yes! The fore and aft sail located in the mizzen mast. But it is not named "mizzen sail" because that would be a square sail located in that mast, which most ships of the sail era lacked, and came in use on the finals years of the sailing ship.

Huh. I dispute that most ships of the era lacked square sails on the mizzen. If you google "frigate" for example, you will see a ship with square sails on the mizzen mast and I believe that was common for a ship rigged vessel. Most naval battles you see in paintings have ships with square sails on the mizzen. Or by era, are you talking much earlier?

Hi! No, they did not use. Look at this engraving, there is not even a furled sail in the mizzen yard, which in fact was not called so but cross jack yard. What were in use were mizzen topsails and mizzen topgallants, but no mizzen sails.

AH, you got me with terminology. I thought the mizzen topsails and mizzen topgallants (and royals) were "sails", but you were referring to what I think of as "courses" as "mizzen sails".

[marcelo_malara]

Huh. I dispute that most ships of the era lacked square sails on the mizzen. If you google "frigate" for example, you will see a ship with square sails on the mizzen mast and I believe that was common for a ship rigged vessel. Most naval battles you see in paintings have ships with square sails on the mizzen. Or by era, are you talking much earlier?

Hi! No, they did not use. Look at this engraving, there is not even a furled sail in the mizzen yard, which in fact was not called so but cross jack yard. What were in use were mizzen topsails and mizzen topgallants, but no mizzen sails.

AH, you got me with terminology. I thought the mizzen topsails and mizzen topgallants (and royals) were "sails", but you were referring to what I think of as "courses" as "mizzen sails".

Yes, I suspected so. What was not used was the lower sail of the mizzen. As I said, in the end of the clipper era a square sail was introduced on the mizzen, but then the warships were mainly propelled by steam. Not even HMS Orlando, one of the largest and latest wooden sailing ship did carry mizzen.

[marcelo_malara]

Cutty Sark painting.

Note:

-furled mizzen
-upper and lower topsails in fore, main and mizzen
-topgallants and royals in fore, main and mizzen
-skysail on main

[Byron Angel]

Cutty Sark painting.

Note:

-furled mizzen
-upper and lower topsails in fore, main and mizzen
-topgallants and royals in fore, main and mizzen
-skysail on main

Also worthy of note are the port & starboard "Stuns'ls" (Studding Sails) set on the fore-topsails, fore-topgallant sail and main top-sails.

Byron

[marcelo_malara]

Also worthy of note are the port & starboard "Stuns'ls" (Studding Sails) set on the fore-topsails, fore-topgallant sail and main top-sails.

Byron

Yes! What a beauty, isn´t she?

[Byron Angel]

Hi Marcelo,
Clipper ships are indeed things of beauty. I was fortunate enough to have seen "Cutty Sark" in Greenwich, England back in 1976 (pre-fire). Pictures just don't do them justice sSimilar feeling for "USS Constitution").

Speaking of such vessels, I was fortunate enough to have been around for the first "Tall Ships" celebration. At the timer, my sister was living in a condominium that directly overlooked the southern approach channel to Boston Harbor. We all gathered there to watch at least a dozen big square-rigged ships coming up under sail from New York under full sail (prevailing wind in New England is out of the SW). They all jammed into berths in Boston Harbor. Since I worked for a very prominent Boston international ocean freight forwarder and my wife worked for the steamship agency that represented the Norwegian Consulate in the Port of Boston, we got very nice VIP treatment aboard a couple of the ships.

I had not thought of that time for many years until you started this clipper ship thread!

Byron

[marcelo_malara]

Hi Marcelo,
Clipper ships are indeed things of beauty. I was fortunate enough to have seen "Cutty Sark" in Greenwich, England back in 1976 (pre-fire). Pictures just don't do them justice sSimilar feeling for "USS Constitution").

Speaking of such vessels, I was fortunate enough to have been around for the first "Tall Ships" celebration. At the timer, my sister was living in a condominium that directly overlooked the southern approach channel to Boston Harbor. We all gathered there to watch at least a dozen big square-rigged ships coming up under sail from New York under full sail (prevailing wind in New England is out of the SW). They all jammed into berths in Boston Harbor. Since I worked for a very prominent Boston international ocean freight forwarder and my wife worked for the steamship agency that represented the Norwegian Consulate in the Port of Boston, we got very nice VIP treatment aboard a couple of the ships.

I had not thought of that time for many years until you started this clipper ship thread!

Byron

Hi Byron! In South America we have a tall ship race, Mediterranean like, hold about every four years, I have seen them in Buenos Aires harbour, mainly school ships of South American navies and some Europeans also. The one that really stroke me was the Cisne Branco, not a school ship, but a sailing vessel of the Brazilian Navy. In my opinion, she is the one that better represents the XIX century sailing era, look at her:

-course, doble topsails, topgallant and royal on the fore
-course, doble topsails, topgallant, royal and skysail on the main
-furled course, topsail, topgallant and royal in the mizzen






Look at the base of the shrouds, old styled, no modern True Lock.

[Byron Angel]

Wow! Built in 1999???

BTW
Do a web search for the yacht “Coronet” restoration project in Newport Rhode Island to preserve an ocean-going luxury sailing yacht of the late 19th century (originally built for a wealthy American “Robber Baron” in the 1880s. This is a real labor of love to reclaim it from the boneyard. It is a 131 ft 3-masted ocean-going schooner which has sailed around the world in the course of its long career at sea.

Byron

[wadinga]

Hi All,

The spanker sail (or jigger) was a useful additional control device to assist the rudder in steering the vessel, but it did tend to "shadow" the lower square sail on the mizzen (mizen) deployed from the cross jack yard. For this reason this lowest square sail was often not deployed. The adjustable power of the spanker could be deployed to ease either excessive lee or weather helm and make steering easier, a bit like a trim tab on an aircraft.

The Country Life book of Nautical Terms under Sail includes the splendidly-named technique "Bagpipe the mizen" which involves hauling the boom of the spanker out on the windward side of the vessel to act as an air brake to slow the vessel down when desired, eg picking up a pilot.

Cutty Sark is now in fine fettle after her rebuild, suspended in her dry dock by struts from the walls which pass unobtrusively right through her hull. A glass roof joins her waterline to the dock walls. This makes it possible to take tea whilst sitting directly under her keel!

All the best

wadinga