Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

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marcelo_malara
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Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by marcelo_malara »

Hi guys. Do you know if any navy did have a specific policy about detonating the warhead at the end of run? Have heard this, but for example could not find the specific mechanism in (for example) the Mk14´s torpedo manual in the HNSA site .

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OpanaPointer
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by OpanaPointer »

I know of a contact trigger, basically firing a charge into the warhead when the weapon hit the hull, and a magnetic exploder, one that noted the magnetic field of a ship and detonated under it. Degaussing was developed to neutralize the magnetic warheads. Civil war USN and CSN ships sometimes employed "spar torpedoes", where the charge was on the end of a pole and the ship rammed this into another ship. Obviously the aggressor was uncomfortably close to the explosion.
Steve Crandell
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by Steve Crandell »

You'd think it would be desirable, but I'm not aware of one. I suppose one disadvantage is that an explosion usually means you've hit a ship, and self destruct would add a lot of extraneous explosions to a torpedo salvo and would definitely alert the enemy to your presence.
OpanaPointer
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by OpanaPointer »

It might be possibly useful to avoid the legendary case where a sub sank itself.

If there's no explosion at the end of the time allowed would it be a good idea to eliminate the torp?
Mostlyharmless
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by Mostlyharmless »

As noted there are two weaknesses of exploding torpedoes at the end of their run which is that damage to the enemy might be overestimated and that the enemy might gain information. Simply telling the torpedo to sink after some distance would seem to avoid both problems although a magnetic fused torpedo might be converted into a mine in shallow water.

The Japanese did tend to overestimate enemy damage during the Solomons Campaign because their inertial fused torpedoes sometimes exploded on passing through ship's wakes. They also experienced problems during the Battle of Sunda Strait https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sunda_Strait when their Type 93 torpedoes ran far beyond their targets and sank or damaged five of their own Java Invasion Force, putting Lt. General Inamura into the sea. The next morning an IJN officer was sent to apologise but realised that General Inamura believed that his ship had been hit by an enemy torpedo and chose not to enlighten him.
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marcelo_malara
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by marcelo_malara »

What would happen with the torpedo sinking at the end of the run? Would the collapse of the warhead because of the water pressure make it explode?
OpanaPointer
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by OpanaPointer »

marcelo_malara wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 pm What would happen with the torpedo sinking at the end of the run? Would the collapse of the warhead because of the water pressure make it explode?
If the trigger mechanism hit something harder enough to se it off it would explode. If it nosed into mud it's less likely to do so. The collapse of the warhead, if that happened, shouldn't cause the detonation.
Natter
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by Natter »

Wether you want the torpedo to self-detonate or not at the end of it's run is determined by several factors, including tactical.

Kriegsmarine incorporated mechanisms to both ensure selfdestruction as well as the opposite in WW2:

Endstreckendetonierersicherung (EDS)
This was a hydrostatic mechanism which made sure that both the mechanical and the influense detonating-mechanisms in the torpedopistol were deactivated when the torpedo reached a certain depth (ie while sinking after having run out its distance after missing the target).

It would prevent the torpedo setting off when hitting the seabed and such avoid revealing the presence of the submarine.


Selbstzerstörungseinrichtung (SZE)
This mechanism activated the detonators at the end of the run to ensure the warhead was set off. It was quite intricate: A saltplug covered an opening in the pistolhousing. After ca 20 min exposure to the seawater it would melt and let water inside. Inside a piece of wood would start swelling from the waterexposure, and after 2-3 minutes it would have expanded enough to push a bolt which in turn activated the detonator setting off the boostercharge and in turn the main charge in the warhead.

As the torpedo had a maximum runtime of about 5-6 minutes, the submarine would have enough time to leave the area and avoid being detected before the torpedo exploded.

The purpose was to make sure new and secret technology wouldn't end up in allied hands, and was mainly used on torpedoes launched by coastal submarines in shallow waters.
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marcelo_malara
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Re: Torpedoes explosions at the end of run

Post by marcelo_malara »

Natter wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:32 pm Wether you want the torpedo to self-detonate or not at the end of it's run is determined by several factors, including tactical.

Kriegsmarine incorporated mechanisms to both ensure selfdestruction as well as the opposite in WW2:

Endstreckendetonierersicherung (EDS)
This was a hydrostatic mechanism which made sure that both the mechanical and the influense detonating-mechanisms in the torpedopistol were deactivated when the torpedo reached a certain depth (ie while sinking after having run out its distance after missing the target).

It would prevent the torpedo setting off when hitting the seabed and such avoid revealing the presence of the submarine.


Selbstzerstörungseinrichtung (SZE)
This mechanism activated the detonators at the end of the run to ensure the warhead was set off. It was quite intricate: A saltplug covered an opening in the pistolhousing. After ca 20 min exposure to the seawater it would melt and let water inside. Inside a piece of wood would start swelling from the waterexposure, and after 2-3 minutes it would have expanded enough to push a bolt which in turn activated the detonator setting off the boostercharge and in turn the main charge in the warhead.

As the torpedo had a maximum runtime of about 5-6 minutes, the submarine would have enough time to leave the area and avoid being detected before the torpedo exploded.

The purpose was to make sure new and secret technology wouldn't end up in allied hands, and was mainly used on torpedoes launched by coastal submarines in shallow waters.
Thanks!
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