Naval History Forums

Can the German Navy Be Saved?

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articl ... 13075.html

Germany has flushed billions down the drain and hamstrung its own economy through its Energiewende policies. All this has proven futile and has always been unnecessary. It boils down to priorities.

Dave Saxton wrote:Germany has flushed billions down the drain and hamstrung its own economy through its Energiewende policies. All this has proven futile and has always been unnecessary. It boils down to priorities.

Germans economy is hamstrung??? Just a 2-minute online research:

* The German economy grew 2.2 percent in 2017, enjoying its fastest rate of expansion since 2011, official data for Europe's top economy showed on Thursday.

* Growth was also almost one percentage point higher than the 1.3-percent average recorded over the past 10 years.

* And Germany notched up a record government budget surplus of 1.2 percent of GDP.

* “The German economy is heading into a boom phase with full steam,” said Christian Lips, an economist at NordLB in Hanover. “For 2018, we expect similarly strong economic momentum as in the past year -- the most important sentiment indicators are close to their historic highs.”

* In the 19-nation currency bloc, industrial output surged 1 percent in November from the previous month, better than forecast, according to a Eurostat report. Economic confidence is at the highest in 17 years.

* The German economy grew by 1.9 percent in 2016, the strongest rate in five years, propelled by private consumption and state spending as households and authorities are benefiting from record-high employment and ultra-low borrowing costs.

* Thanks to strict government budget policies, Germany has avoided the debt problems that plague some of its neighbors.

* The favorable conditions have combined to produce the strongest economic production per person in Europe


Sure, these are all signs of a hamstrung economy. But again, like with climate change, why care about facts when we can have ideology instead? Oh wait, I forgot these are al fake-news from the mainstream media, sorry.

And of course the Energiewende is the evil and costly thing, sure. Ever considered the costs still lingering from the unification with former Eastern Germany? Or billions resulting from the current refugee/migration crisis? Despite these and other obligations, Germany is still the largest and most healthy economy in Europe. On top of this, it can still afford a substantial health and social security system for almost everyone. Maybe they are doing something right, compared to other countries?

As for the Energiewende, they have also simply calculated the long-term costs of subsidising nuclear power and the associated costs for nuclear waste deposits, as well as a simple risk/cost-analysis of nuclear disasters. Subsidising nuclear power has changed to subsidizing renewals, for rational and not ideological reasons. As you say, its all priorities, and some developed countries still prioritize the long-term welfare of the society over the ideologies of a radical minority or simply the well-being of a few very rich people.

The German Navy is paid by taxes, while the "Energiewende" is paid by consumers in the main. Energy-intensive industries are excepted from this surcharge by the way.

Less money in the people's pockets by any means is the same effect. It always retards economic growth and innovation. Energy subsidies in this case are transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. So unnecessary. Moreover, the needed funding to keep the Navy solvent is a fraction of what is being wasted by this.

* The German economy grew by 1.9 percent in 2016

That's pitiful. Nonetheless, they can't afford to keep six U-boats operational.........

If the German Navy is to be a significant force then that requires Germany itself to be a significant power in its own right - it is not simply a matter of money and provision of resources on an existing budget.

To answer the question directly it would need Germany to have an AFD government that takes Germany out of the European Union, restore the deutschmark as the national currency and quite possibly leave NATO as well. In other words the Navy would be a truly independent force. Whether the US and Russia would be happy with that is another matter, however as an aside from a British point of view the EU would be finished without Germany and a real Brexit can happen. Bring it on...…..

RF wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:30 am If the German Navy is to be a significant force then that requires Germany itself to be a significant power in its own right - it is not simply a matter of money and provision of resources on an existing budget.

To answer the question directly it would need Germany to have an AFD government that takes Germany out of the European Union, restore the deutschmark as the national currency and quite possibly leave NATO as well. In other words the Navy would be a truly independent force. Whether the US and Russia would be happy with that is another matter, however as an aside from a British point of view the EU would be finished without Germany and a real Brexit can happen. Bring it on...…..

Hi RF,
I take it you (and I) will both be raising a glass on 31st of this month?

I would be raising a glass if the UK had a clean break from the EU, which isn't quite what we will get on 31 January 2020.

There is a transition process running for the following eleven months which means the UK won't be truly free of the EU before the start of 2021.

Even after that we cannot be sure that the UK will still be subject to EU Directives or obligations to contribute to the EU Budget without any of the membership rights.

Raise your glases, it looks like you will have Wodka in them.

I'll think I will wait on that one.

If the Soviet Union (sorry, Russia) thinks that Brexit makes their strategic position in Europe stronger then they will find they are mistaken.

Especially if the EU vanishes and a new Germany emerges with Poland as its strategic ally...….

RF wrote: ↑Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:23 pm I'll think I will wait on that one.

If the Soviet Union (sorry, Russia) thinks that Brexit makes their strategic position in Europe stronger then they will find they are mistaken.

Especially if the EU vanishes and a new Germany emerges with Poland as its strategic ally...….

As long as Germany and some others will pay the bill, the EU will remain. Even Kaczynski will keep his hate in check as long as he get Euros.