Final Paint Scheme

[chcrawfish]

According to the KBismarck site, the swastikas on the deck fore and aft were painted over before she saided from Norway. The images of the wreck show them clearly NOT painted over. Did they repaint the decks while running for Brest?

[Herr Nilsson]

The images of the wreck show them clearly NOT painted over.

????

[chcrawfish]

In the photographs of the wreck, the swastika on the deck, for aerial identification, is still visible, but according to: http://www.kbismarck.com/drawings.html drawing #5 shows that they were painted over prior to the departure from Norway. But pictures of the stern of the wreck here: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck/w ... eck_5.html show the swastika still there.

[José M. Rico]

On Bismarck the swastikas were actually covered with canvas to the end. Yes, according the reconstructed Bismarck war diary they were painted over but that and many other diary entries come from Prinz Eugen's log. In fact, on the Prinz they painted them over.

[paulcadogan]

The visibility of the swastikas doesn't mean they weren't painted over.

I would think another possibilty is the gradual action of sea water over the decades. The paint is slowly being degraded. Naturally the upper layer (painted over) would go first (especially given that it was applied atop the layer originally applied to the deck planking?).

With time the swastikas will be gone too. That is clearly happening as you can see in the photos.

Paul

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

according to many witnesses and reports we have discovered recently and referencing Matrose Maus report, Bismarck tops on main turrets were re-painted on yellow approcahing France, just as KM Op. Rheinubung documents required. They did not make it on the secondary 150 mm turrets due to danger as Matrose Maus explained as he was supposed to do the job.

But, according to the Fliegersichtzeichen needs, they not only had to re-paint the top turrets on yellow, so main turrets and secondary turrets, but also to repaint the swastikas both on stern and on the bow as the written procedures required.

Following this logic when they were approaching France, and the order was given to put ON again the Fliegersichtzeichen ( air recognition markings for Luftwaffe ), they did it succesfully on top main turrets with yellow, succesfully on the swastika banners, ..... and they simply did not take any more risk on the secondary 150 mm turrets.

This in my opinion is the reason why the wreck shows secondary on grey and swastikas ON, .. while it will be very difficult now to check the main turret tops given their current positions, ............ but in this case the Royal Navy radio messagges confirmed they were yellow at the end.

Ciao Antonio

[José M. Rico]

Well, if you guys have read Josef Statz account, he remembers very well having seen the bow swastika after the ropes that held the covering canvas got loose. This was all just before he abandoned the ship on 27 May.

[chcrawfish]

Okay, so one way or the other they were visible at the time of the sinking. Question answered. Thanx.

[Herr Nilsson]

Well, I'm a little bit curious how it was possible to paint perfectly shaped swastikas while the paint on the turret tops of the secondary armament was washed away by breakers.

[tommy303]

Well, if the Statz narrative is accurate, then the swastikas were merely covered by canvas which came loose, rather than being painted over and then repainted. Given Bismarck being down by the bow and the sea state, this makes much more sense than repainting them.

[Herr Nilsson]

http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/2001ex ... 1close.jpg

Hm, but what about the grey paint on this picture.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

thanking some new evidences recently surfaced we have now more elements about Bismarck Fliegersichtzeichen.

Referencing what was done on Prinz Eugen swastika banners we can see that they used covers during the Norway short stop.

Surely on Prinz Eugen after the Norway stop they painted the banners over with grey ( photo do exist of this detail ) I assuem that since an order on this direction was given from Flottenchef, also Bismarck paint them over ( and this explains the grey presence on the wreck photo by Herr Nilsson).

In my personal opinion Bismarck had swastika banners painted over just like Prinz Eugen entering the north atlantic as a long period at sea was supposed after, so she had them painted over during Denmark Strait and after on May 25th and early 26th.
I cannot imagine Bismarck sailing into Atlantic ocean high waters for a month with a canvas cover on the bow swastika banner.

When the Flottenchef ordered Fliegersichtzeichen ON, as we know he managed of course the ON and OFF calls (ref. PG KTB) than they were re-painted again.
This was a common practice on KM warships even when sailing as we have many other evidences of this fact.
Probably they temporarly covered with the canvas the just re-painted banners, as they still had them on board of course, but only because they were still under RAF torpedo bombers attack from the aircraft carriers.

They hoped soon to be under Luftwaffe air coverage range, so they got ready ( and this was a positive morale impact for the crew I suppose ) but they were still under enemy airplanes attack.

This may explain why the ON order was given for the Fliegersichtzeichen and the main turrets were yellow, ...... the secondary were not painted ,...... the banners were succesfully re-painted but only temporarly masked with canvas, getting ready to show them as required ....... as Josef Statz saw them leaving the ship ... just as the wreck photo shows.

This way everything seems to match, with current wreck photo status, with all witness reports by British an Josef Statz, and finally with the given orders as Matrose Maus reported.

Ciao Antonio

[Herr Nilsson]

Well, but Statz also said the foretop deck was shot away. However, it's still a miracle how the painted this "beautiful" swatika in heavy seas.

[Olaf]

Maybe it would help to find out how far the German air coverage extended into the Atlantic. Where was Bismarck sunk? 600 nm off the French coast? Could the German planes cover this distance and back in one stint? I mean, if not, why should Lütjens order to paint the turret tops and the f'c'sle and poop swasticas? It may well have been in the script of the order for the next day - 'Tagesbefehl' - which may have been written before the faithful evening (stern torpedo hit).

Herr Nilsson's argument is quite strong - the yellow of the seconary turrets is said to have been washed away. If so, then even a large battleship need to list and roll heavily - so heavily that I can't imagine ordering poor sailors to the foredeck and poop to paint a few black lines (and red and white as seen on the photo!) and so heavily, that it even should have been difficult to paint the turret top's flat surfaces. By all means, am I the only one here who sailed in the navy to see that this is really nonsense?

The radio message from the Admiralty to Tovey: Well, as far as I know, everyone is qouting it in various message boards and nobody wondered why it was transmitted (or received) towards the end of the final battle, shortly before Bismarck went down? Way too late to have any effect on the decision makers present at the scenery?

Where was the Admiralty getting this information from? From the Swordfish pilots who crippled the Bismarck? If the turret tops had been yellow at the time of the attack, the pilots would surely have reported something ~ to the commanding officers of the carrier from which they launched the attack. I think the brass around the scenery knew how the Bismarck looked after they realised that something was wrong with her. The blokes around the green table on the big island could only have guessed upon what they knew from previous KM operations and so they assumed that Bismarck was just doing the very same. (They seem to have missed the fact that during earlier operations - around Norway - the turret tops were yellow but later changed to red as the British had yellow ones too (I read this somewhere...). If we follow this logic, then we all should ask ourselves if the turret tops could have been red on Bismarck approaching France.

Interesting is, that Mike J. Whitley in his book 'German Capital Warships of World War Two' states that Krancke on Admiral Scheer - approaching the Denmark Strait on her homebound leg from the successful raid - asked the SKL if the RED turret tops are still valid for air recognition for the last leg, after a successful breakthrough. (I have the German edition of the book so I can't give you a word-by-word-quote). The SKL confirmed... and this was in March 1941! Ok, one could now argue that the air coverage around Norway does not really cover the Atlantic theater of operations. But wasn't the argument that PG and BS had yellow turret tops when leaving Norway and approaching France? Ok, this is now a bit off-topic...

Again, I don't think they re-painted the swasticas. They painted them over with grey. Over the decades under water, some of the grey is gone and the black, white and red paint from underneath is visible again.

Just my 0.02 ~ Olaf