RN USN and IJN ships

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
paul.mercer
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RN USN and IJN ships

Post by paul.mercer » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:26 am

Gentlemen,
I another topic we discussed the point that many of the battleships of the main navies RN, USN and IJN were fairly elderly, so if we exclude the Yamato's, Iowa's and KGV's, and concentrate on the WWI vintage and any of their rebuilds up to around the early 1930's, how did they really compare with each other and how would they fare if pitted against each other? (I'm including the RN Nelsons QE's and R's whether some were rebuilt or not)

Steve Crandell
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by Steve Crandell » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:35 am

USN BBs were significantly slower than the others, and I think a bit more heavily armored.

The Nelsons were in a class by themselves, being newer than the others you listed. Not sure what that means in combat potential. They were obviously quite different ships.

paul.mercer
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by paul.mercer » Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:03 am

Thanks for your reply Steve,
I can't imagine anything much slower than an 'R'!
As for combat potential, i'm sorry I did not make myself clear, what I meant is how would they fare in a battle against each other, for instance a modified QE against a comparable US or IJN ship, if the 'Nelsons' were too new to be taken into consideration.

OpanaPointer
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by OpanaPointer » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:30 am

USN OBBs were not expected to exceed ~20 kts.

Steve Crandell
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by Steve Crandell » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:56 pm

I think the 16" ships were clearly superior to the others. Having said that, in theory the British and Japanese could choose not to fight the US ships.

Other than that, I don't think there is much to choose between the different BBs. They could all defeat their opposite numbers. When you get BB size shells going back and forth, most anything can happen, I think.

HMSVF
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by HMSVF » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:00 pm

Steve Crandell wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:56 pm
I think the 16" ships were clearly superior to the others. Having said that, in theory the British and Japanese could choose not to fight the US ships.

Other than that, I don't think there is much to choose between the different BBs. They could all defeat their opposite numbers. When you get BB size shells going back and forth, most anything can happen, I think.

Wouldn’t a lot depend on the material state of the ships? Ok the Q.E’s recieved modifications when they were brought in but I always get the impression that the RN ran their ships quite hard? The R’s were probably very nearly worn out by WW2 and didn’t Repulse have the same machinery as built when she was sunk?

I suppose the question would be when comparing is at what time?
If it’s say 1920 I’d argue there is not much between them. If it’s after say 1930 then I tentatively argue that the material differences would be greater. I wouldn’t want to be facing, say a Fuso in an R class. Fuso would be able to out range and outrun one and dictate any battle. The R would be nobbled by 20 degree elevation and a realistic speed of say 19 knots?

Unless by miracle the R comes across Fuso at night,foul weather or fog it would be a thoroughly miserable engagement for the RN

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marcelo_malara
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by marcelo_malara » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 pm

No US BB developed more than 40.000 hp before the North Carolina class, most not even 30.000 hp, that´s why they were so slow.

Regards

Steve Crandell
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by Steve Crandell » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:42 pm

marcelo_malara wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:30 pm
No US BB developed more than 40.000 hp before the North Carolina class, most not even 30.000 hp, that´s why they were so slow.

Regards
By way of comparison, the Cleveland class CLs had about 100,000 shp.

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marcelo_malara
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Re: RN USN and IJN ships

Post by marcelo_malara » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:19 pm

I don´t know if BB and cruiser machinery can be easily compared. Power (hp) is the product of torque and rotational speed (in radians per second). BBs had big and slow turning propellers, while cruisers had smaller and faster turning ones, I am not sure that a cruiser turbine geared to a BB propeller would do the same.

Anyway, the USN BBs had lower (in some cases much lower) power that their foreign contemporaries.

Regards

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