US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
OpanaPointer
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by OpanaPointer » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:30 am

Halsey was sent south to look for the carriers due to radio intercepts of messages from a destroyer unit normally associated with carrier plane guard duty. The intercept suggested they were around Johnston Island. It wasn't until after noon that the Army advised Com14th of the radar track Lockard and Elliott developed at that radar installation on the north side of Oahu. (Now what was that name again?)

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Dave Saxton
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by Dave Saxton » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:50 pm

OpanaPointer wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:30 am
It wasn't until after noon that the Army advised Com14th of the radar track Lockard and Elliott developed at that radar installation on the north side of Oahu. (Now what was that name again?)
LOL
Entering a night sea battle is an awesome business.The enveloping darkness, hiding the enemy's.. seems a living thing, malignant and oppressive.Swishing water at the bow and stern mark an inexorable advance toward an unknown destiny.

HMSVF
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by HMSVF » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:44 pm

T/O


My gut feeling is that the Japanese would have lost a lot more planes but the US would have been permanently deprived of more battleships than historic unless they had sufficient air cover.

As for Halsey? Well,I suppose a lot would depend on who got the first blow in first and where. If the Japanese are busy tearing up the battleships en masse then I wonder whether Halsey could have ambushed them like Fletcher & Spruance did at Midway.

The grand picture would end up the same - the US prevail. Pearl Harbor was a brilliantly executed, but stupid plan. Perhaps if the Japanese had lost a lot of experienced pilots at this historical alternative the war may have ended earlier, say early 1945. The allies still had the various islands to occupy. I suppose an interesting question is whether the Philippines could have been defended had the Japanese plans been discovered say 24 hrs earlier (or whatever). A defended Philippines would really put the cat amongst the pigeons and perhaps saved Malaya/Singapore in the process.

But that's a lot of what ifs!

OpanaPointer
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by OpanaPointer » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:22 pm

Alan Zimm's book on Pearl Harbor might interest you.

As for Halsey, the NKB was achingly aware that the USN carriers were "out there somewhere" and they patrolled accordingly. There wouldn't have been an ambush scenario.

Byron Angel
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by Byron Angel » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:23 pm

Interesting document covering US Army defenses on Oahu. I suspect there were probably more ground-based AA weapons than aboard the ships.

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals ... Harbor.pdf

B

OpanaPointer
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Re: US fleet sail before attack on Pearl harbour.

Post by OpanaPointer » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:36 pm

Byron Angel wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:23 pm
Interesting document covering US Army defenses on Oahu. I suspect there were probably more ground-based AA weapons than aboard the ships.

https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Portals ... Harbor.pdf

B
And the source, I suspect, for that document: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/pha/

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