38 cm and 15 cm sound

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hanswittman
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38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:37 pm

Hi gentleman's,

Anyone have an idea regarding where i can find sound of 38 cm and 15 cm even paid library, i know this must be in the impossible department but do you think that sound from 16 inch from US battleships would be close enough?

I search a lot on this the other night and i didn't have any luck.

Regards Hans

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by Steve Crandell » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:38 am

You could try contacting the World of Warships game people. They seem to have different sounds for the different naval guns and they might be willing to tell you how they decided what sounds to use. It appears to me that the higher velocity guns tend to have higher pitches.

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:46 am

Steve Crandell wrote:You could try contacting the World of Warships game people. They seem to have different sounds for the different naval guns and they might be willing to tell you how they decided what sounds to use. It appears to me that the higher velocity guns tend to have higher pitches.
Hi Steve,

Could be an idea but i presumed they simply download some heavy artillery sound(since they are legions) and put some filters in their audio application.

To be able to reproduce such a distinctive sound you must first hear it with your own ears.

I saw some video on YouTube with various ships from the Kriegsmarine but you can never tell if sound are genuine or simply edit with non native audio fx.

I guess we will have to do the same and just make it sound good but like i mention earlier the 16 inch sound from US battleships should be a good base.

This is one of those time you wish you have a time machine!

Regards Hans

ede144
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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by ede144 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:49 pm

If you ask at forum-marinearchiv.de you might find one guy who maybe could confirm if the sound is ok, because he was with Target ship Hessen

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by pgollin » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:48 pm

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One has to be very careful with the sound of gunfire on film. At the very least the film has been edited such that the sound occurs at the same time (near enough) to the flash of the guns whereas the noise would have taken several seconds to travel to the camera's position. As many WW2 era cameras did not have sound then what you here MIGHT be sourced from anywhere.

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by tommy303 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:57 pm

And even for those set ups that did have a microphone, microphones of the time were not capable of capturing all the different wavelengths of sound when a big gun fired, so it was more common to dub something approximating the sound of a muzzle blast during post production.

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:37 pm

Hi gentleman's,

So far the best solution i think is to emulate the 38 cm from a 16 inch US battleship and for the 15 cm trying to find an equivalent in caliber with some audio tweaking for echo and reverberation.

Shooting big guns at sea have a very different sound then firing it on land.

A 100% historical accuracy is impossible to achieve but as long as it sound and feel like big naval guns it should be fine and we also got the point that since no one ever heard these sounds then they wont be able to tell the difference.

Regards Hans

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by Djoser » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:40 am

There was a very popular series of music albums (you know, the old vinyl records lol) of music from the old television series Victory at Sea. The third album had (supposedly) genuine recordings of 16 inch gunfire, as well as anti-aircraft fire. I used to love that album. You can probably find it on Amazon. Victory at Sea volume 3

Or maybe find some archival video of one of the US BBs firing their guns during the first war on Iraq. I know they were different guns than the Bismarck's 15 inch, but probably the closest thing to it that has been recorded in any kind of quality

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:46 pm

Djoser wrote:There was a very popular series of music albums (you know, the old vinyl records lol) of music from the old television series Victory at Sea. The third album had (supposedly) genuine recordings of 16 inch gunfire, as well as anti-aircraft fire. I used to love that album. You can probably find it on Amazon. Victory at Sea volume 3

Or maybe find some archival video of one of the US BBs firing their guns during the first war on Iraq. I know they were different guns than the Bismarck's 15 inch, but probably the closest thing to it that has been recorded in any kind of quality
Hi Djoser,

I already found 16 inch gun sound and yes the sound difference should be minimal since if i am correct the 16 inch gun had the same amount of powder bag as the 15 inch.

For the 15 cm there was a land equivalent in caliber from the Howitzer so i think this could be an alternative and i already had flak authentic sound in my collection.

Using sound from land artillery just need to get processed in audio editor with echo.

Regards Hans

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by tommy303 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:06 am

In the case of the 38cm, sound should be a bit sharper tone as the gun was higher velocity; same with the 15cm naval gun versus the 15cm howitzer. Perhaps the 12,8cm Pak 44 might be closer in sound.

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by Steve Crandell » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:46 am

hanswittman wrote: I already found 16 inch gun sound and yes the sound difference should be minimal since if i am correct the 16 inch gun had the same amount of powder bag as the 15 inch.
Regards Hans
Actually the USN 16"/50 used 660 lbs of powder and the German 15" used less than 500 lbs.

As tommy mentioned though, the German gun would tend to have a "sharper" sound due to the higher MV.

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:27 am

tommy303 wrote:In the case of the 38cm, sound should be a bit sharper tone as the gun was higher velocity; same with the 15cm naval gun versus the 15cm howitzer. Perhaps the 12,8cm Pak 44 might be closer in sound.
Hi Tommy,

Thank again for shedding some light on the sound of these guns, once i edit them i will upload them on the Atlantic warfare website so you can gave us your opinion.

I am almost done with the website and i will keep you all inform on launch date so we can start a dynamic community that will help us by getting involved in the making of the Sim.

Regards Hans

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by hanswittman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:31 am

Steve Crandell wrote:
hanswittman wrote: I already found 16 inch gun sound and yes the sound difference should be minimal since if i am correct the 16 inch gun had the same amount of powder bag as the 15 inch.
Regards Hans
Actually the USN 16"/50 used 660 lbs of powder and the German 15" used less than 500 lbs.

As tommy mentioned though, the German gun would tend to have a "sharper" sound due to the higher MV.
Hi Steve,

Thank for clarifying the powder bag quantity.

Regards Hans

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by Djoser » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:30 pm

Yeah the sharper sound would make sense. Damn I love this forum

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Re: 38 cm and 15 cm sound

Post by pgollin » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:14 pm

.

The major reason for the different weights was that the USN used a "single base" propellant (powder) whereas most other nations (including the Germans) used a double base propellant, which meant less weight/volume was required for equivalent power. I would ASSUME that single and double base propellants would have SLIGHTLY different noise signatures due to the speed of propagation, certainly single base produced more smoke.

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