Bismarck recovers its steering
Bismarck recovers its steering
In an interesting but wholly unfounded hypothesis, what are the odds that Bismarck---its steering somehow finally recovered during the night of 26/27 May---would have remained loitering in the patch of ocean where, next morning, Tovey's battleships would appear, and deliver their coup de grace?
More to the point, with its steering recovered, what would have prevented the ship from taking full advantage of its opportunity to get away?
More to the point, with its steering recovered, what would have prevented the ship from taking full advantage of its opportunity to get away?
- paulcadogan
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:03 am
- Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Obviously with functional rudders there would have been an immediate about face and beeline for France as fast as her engines (and fuel) would carry her...
However, if the miraculous repair took place during the night, and Vian's destroyers were able to keep in touch, there still might be the possibility of a night action with Tovey if KGV and Rodney were close enough.... Tovey would have been forced to move in despite the risks.
However, if the miraculous repair took place during the night, and Vian's destroyers were able to keep in touch, there still might be the possibility of a night action with Tovey if KGV and Rodney were close enough.... Tovey would have been forced to move in despite the risks.
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:17 pm
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Main task of the destroyers as happend was to bother Bismarck and creating favorable conditions for the next day.
I am convinced that in the case of recovering steerability and heading towards france, the british destroyers had undertaken attacks at all cost.
I am convinced that in the case of recovering steerability and heading towards france, the british destroyers had undertaken attacks at all cost.
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4349
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:33 pm
- Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Almost certainly...Thorsten Wahl wrote:Main task of the destroyers as happend was to bother Bismarck and creating favorable conditions for the next day.
I am convinced that in the case of recovering steerability and heading towards france, the british destroyers had undertaken attacks at all cost.
But perhaps Bismarck could obtain 24-25kts and, given the storm, the destroyers couldn't close the range at all ?
- Ersatz Yorck
- Member
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:56 pm
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Another interesting question is how would functioning steering have affected the battle, supposing now that there is a battle? It would undoubtedly have helped the Bismarck, but how much?
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Well, it depends largely upon what course is taken--- if to the south and the Iberian Peninsula, Bismarck may have forced the British (especially Tovey) to break away for lack of fuel. He (Tovey) had already issued a "no-engage" order for Renown; HMS Rodney would likely have remained a stronger threat but, with her slow speed, seems unlikely to have brought Bismarck to action. Ark Royal still had her torpedo planes, but what they could have done is anyone's guess?
A direct run to St. Nazaire was another option but, again, I think Bismarck could have shaken its pursuers and bought enough time to enable assistance to reach the area. Having apparently lost at least two of its three bow anchors (one was left behind at Gdynia, I believe) the ship may have remained at sea long enough for the poor weather to abate and calmer seas could have been negotiated more easily, what with the hole in the bow still leaking.
Just thoughts....
A direct run to St. Nazaire was another option but, again, I think Bismarck could have shaken its pursuers and bought enough time to enable assistance to reach the area. Having apparently lost at least two of its three bow anchors (one was left behind at Gdynia, I believe) the ship may have remained at sea long enough for the poor weather to abate and calmer seas could have been negotiated more easily, what with the hole in the bow still leaking.
Just thoughts....
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1658
- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:06 am
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
..... I agree with RNDanFan's assessment. A recovery of reliable steering control returns all sorts of capabilities to Bismarck - not least of which is her ability to steam at speed. At that point, weather and British fuel state would dictate what might be able to catch her. And what are the chances of a Swordfish attack turning up the Queen of Spades yet again?
Re absent anchors, I'm sure that the enterprising German harbormaster of St Nazaire could arrange some tugs to coax her right into a snug pierside berth.
B
Re absent anchors, I'm sure that the enterprising German harbormaster of St Nazaire could arrange some tugs to coax her right into a snug pierside berth.
B
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
If we mean here that Bismarck regains FULL steering ability then Lutjens would turn towards France and with a minimum speed of 19 knots then Rodney would not be able to catch up and engage. Tovey could try to catch up with KGV and perhaps Renown, but now the equation changes - without the nine 16 inch guns of Rodney and with the Luftwaffe coming into closer range there is the propect of not only Bismarck escaping but the British taking substantial damage in return.paulcadogan wrote:Obviously with functional rudders there would have been an immediate about face and beeline for France as fast as her engines (and fuel) would carry her...
However, if the miraculous repair took place during the night, and Vian's destroyers were able to keep in touch, there still might be the possibility of a night action with Tovey if KGV and Rodney were close enough.... Tovey would have been forced to move in despite the risks.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Given the accuracy of Bismarck's fire during that night, if Bismarck regained FULL steering capability then the British destroyer attacks become suicidal - closing the range with a now fully mobile target that can comb torpedo tracks and take advantage of the broadside presentation when torpedoes are fired. There is a risk of a torpedo hit - but surely not on the rudders !?!Thorsten Wahl wrote:Main task of the destroyers as happend was to bother Bismarck and creating favorable conditions for the next day.
I am convinced that in the case of recovering steerability and heading towards france, the british destroyers had undertaken attacks at all cost.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Bismarck would not even need that speed, especially after daybreak...alecsandros wrote: But perhaps Bismarck could obtain 24-25kts and, given the storm, the destroyers couldn't close the range at all ?
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
Re: Bismarck recovers its steering
Surely there would be no debate on the part of Lutjens and his staff about the course to follow..... they would close France on the most direct route in order to get under Luftwaffe air cover and the support of U-boats coming out of the French ports as quickly as possible.RNfanDan wrote:Well, it depends largely upon what course is taken--- if to the south and the Iberian Peninsula, Bismarck may have forced the British (especially Tovey) to break away for lack of fuel.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.