Waffen SS and Kriegsmarine

[RF]

In 1944 the SS set up a formation in the Luftwaffe, involved in the development of rocket planes.

Is there any record of the Waffen SS similary creating a naval formation?
I have heard of references to an ''SS Destroyer'' in connection with a captured Dutch destroyer around the time of D-Day, but as far as I am aware this was only a rumour.

Did Donitz allow German sailors to join the SS?

[Karl Heidenreich]

Hitler´s ambition was to gradually replace all those "junkers" from the Prussian establishment and the traditional army and police forces in favor of a Nazi Constabulary Force, in this case the SS. The Waffen SS was only a part of this big enterprise.
If Mr. Hitler idea was to replace Army, then Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine were also his aims.
As a comment: I don´t think that the Luftwaffe would be any problem, in most cases their members were already nazis. With the Army there were problems because they were traditional "junkers" and the biggest problem would be the KM, as far as I know, the most hostile branch of the armed forces regarding to Hitler.
I remember that somewhere, years ago, I read a remark attributed to Hitler saying: "I don´t know what to do: I have a prussian army and a catholic navy..."
I don´t know if that remark is genuine and the part about KM is true. But, anyway, I don´t recall the KM being a fertile land for Nazism.

Best regards

[RF]

catholic navy..."
anyway, I don´t recall the KM being a fertile land for Nazism.

Best regards

Donitz joined the Nazi Party after he succeeded Raeder as Kriegsmarine Grossadmiral, and after the July 1944 bomb plot, many Kriegsmarine units, including U-boats, had to include Soviet style ''political officers'' in their company.

[Karl Heidenreich]

I believe that after the plot to kill Hitler a senior officer´s life was in quite danger if he not give a visible signal of loyalty. And having political officers in the KM vessels give me the hint that someone doesn´t trust the crews, ergo, they were not good nazis.

[RF]

I believe that after the plot to kill Hitler a senior officer´s life was in quite danger if he not give a visible signal of loyalty. And having political officers in the KM vessels give me the hint that someone doesn´t trust the crews, ergo, they were not good nazis.

There was a case in the spring of 1944 where a U-boat commander was court-martialled for sedition and was shot by firing squad.
Apparently his XO, who allegedly was seeking a quick promotion to obtain his own command, had reported his commander for making comments that Hitler wasn't quite sane and that having a picture of Hitler hanging in the wardroom was ''idolatrous''.
An appeal against the verdict was made to Donitz who it is alleged ignored the case and let the execution take place.
Ironically the XO got his command - and it was almost immediately sunk -he didn't survive, but those who did told their British captors about the case and were interrogated by British Intelligence on the matter.

[miro777]

hey...
the navy was generally known as the least nazi like part of the amred forces...

best example...
Lütjens greeting Hitler with the traditional naval salut, instead of the
'Heil Hitler'


adios
miro

[RF]

hey...
the navy was generally known as the least nazi like part of the amred forces...

best example...
Lütjens greeting Hitler with the traditional naval salut, instead of the
'Heil Hitler'


adios
miro

There was also the famous picture of Langsdorf of the Graf Spee giving the orthodox naval salute at the funeral in Montevideo of the Graf Spee dead, while all around him, including the priests, were giving the nazi salute.

[RF]

Am I right in thining that the nazi saute only became compulsory for the Kriegsmarine with the introduction of the political officers in 1944?

I recall seeing some crew pictures on board Admiral Scheer in August 1944 where men were giving the nazi salute to their officer; as it was being photographed it could have been staged for propaganda purposes.

[miro777]

Nazism is simply sad

[KB]

Not to sure if many were allowed to join the SS from the Navy but Hendrich did, he was a young naval officer early in the war but then switched forces.

[tommy303]

Heydrich did not simply switch from the Navy to the SS. He was a fairly promising junior officer, but the exact reasons for his leaving the navy are murky. There are several possibilities: the most common explanation, and one which Heydrich seems to have endorsed himself, was that he got the daughter of an important industrialist pregnant and when he refused to marry her, he was dismissed by Raeder. However, postwar research has failed to turn up the identity of the industrialist family. An alternate was he was accused of spying on the Navy for the Nazi party--there is circumstantial evidence in support of the theory, but no firm proof. A third and more likely scenario is that he was engaged to one young woman while courting Lina von Osten. He married the latter and it is possible that his breaking the engagement to the former might have caused friction with other officers, Raeder in particular. Whatever the exact reasons for leaving the Navy, he did so under a cloud in 1931. He married Lina von Osten and joined the SS the same year.

[RF]

Not to sure if many were allowed to join the SS from the Navy but Hendrich did, he was a young naval officer early in the war but then switched forces.

If there was an official ban - I'm not aware of any - it could have been interpreted by the Nazi's as a criticism of the regime.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Many officers in the "inter war years" left the German Armed Forces which didn´t seem to had any future and join the nazi ranks. When the nazis got the power their new units needed of experienced men to lead them and, for ambitious guys like Reinhard Heydrich, a way to go up the ladder.
Let´s have one, as an example, of the most able and gifted German Panzer commanders: Waffen SS Brigadeführer Wilhelm Bittrich. He was a former fighter pilot that decided to quit the Luftwaffe career and began a life in the fighting corps of the SS. There he exceeded as a tank commander.

Let´s remember that the SS is now part of a great myth (please, don´t misquote me or believe anything that´s not true): common people believe that the SS´ only purpose was to pursue and kill the enemies of the nazi regime in the Concentration and Extermination Camps. Other perception is that of the Malmedy massacre during the Battle of the Bulge.
But the Waffen SS was a combat elite unit which fought in many of the greatest and bloodier combats of WWII. And their combat excellence is being rediscovered by new accounts, specially hidden by the USSR and brought recently to light. In the rather new account of the Citadelle Operation (Battle of Kursk) by House and Glantz for the Kansas University Press we can read about Russian officers stating how a single SS Division broke the lines and destroyed entire Tank Armies before brought to a halt by almost infinite numerical superior units. In a chapter there is a statement that in some critical areas of the front the russians lost 27 tanks per 1 German.
History is more complex and deeper than the usual "official versions" that Reader Digest, James Cameron, CNN or Time published.

[RF]

There is also the point that Bittrich, as far as I am aware, was not implicated in any war crimes, his is a name I have come across elsewhere - Arnhem.

[RF]

As a further aside to Karl's note about misconceptions about the SS it is also a fact that some Germans convicted of war crimes had no connection with that organisation.

One of these was Helmuth von Ruckteschell - who disliked Nazism on religous grounds, but was still convicted of war crimes commited as captain of hilfskreuzers Widder and Michel.