marcelo_malara wrote:Oberwarrior, you should also list the rest of the USN BB fleet. That would show that the fleet at Pearl was no more obsolete than the rest, as many people seems to believe. Yes, they were not new, but the Japanese blow deleted half the BB fleet for a while.
As requested I have listed basic statistics for other US battleships...
1) Iowa Class (4 ships), 31 kts design speed (33/35 kts theoretical max), commissioned 1942 onwards, 9 x 16 inch guns.
2) South Dakota Class (4 ships), 27 kts, commissioned early 1942 onwards, 9 x 16 inch.
3) North Carolina Class (2 ships), 26 kts, commissioned 1941, 9 x 16 inch. (considered first modern US battleships after twenty year building gap)
However I feel this somewhat reinforces my point, these three classes of battleship were modern, this being reflected in there design. They certainly could hold there own again foreign contemporary designs, i.e Bismarck, Richelieu, KG5 (America's interwar planning consider the theoretical scenario of fighting a naval war with Britain, although highly unlikely) etc.
The point I am trying to make is the battleships present at Pearl Harbor were vintage, being designed and laid down before or during the First World War. Post World War One battleship design changed, for example (despite her many floors) Hood could be describe as one of the first modern battleships (personally I consider her as a fast light battleship). Come World War 2 to this idea of great fleets of battleships lined up and slugging it out against their opposite numbers was old hat, battleships had a new role, developed during World War 2, but already planned during the 1930s. These battleships sitting in Pearl on the morning of the attack were good old fashioned, slow bruisers, designed to battle it out sitting in a main battle line.
The most important point here comes from the American Vice Admiral William Halsey, Jr. who did not take the battleships along with his carrier group because they were to slow. In the Pacific battleships needed to be able to keep up with the fast carrier groups. This was considered the standard doctrine before the war, the tactics used by both the Americans and the Japanese in the Pacific theater were already defined, hence building carriers during the interwar period.
I don't think it came as a great surprise to many intelligent people how successful aircraft carriers were, the only people who were surprised were fairly conservative old fashioned types. The battleship had already been proven the weak link during the First World War. Some countries, did remain stuck in the past, Germany for one would have been better off building a u-boat fleet during the 1930s. Likewise the Royal Navy because of various reasons did not seem to truly accept the carriers new role, despite being instrumental in developing carriers, the Royal Navy & Royal Air Forced did not full work together until latter in World War 2. Why were British carriers equipped with Fairy Swordfish bombers early in the war?
Getting back to the main subject, the Americans new there was a war coming, and they certainly were not against the idea, let us not forget war equals big money. FDR spoke famous words after the Japanese attack 'this is a day which will live in infamy', had the Japanese attack been foiled or had the terrorist hijacking the planes to slam into the World Trade Center been arrested at the airport where would the 'infamy' be? Where would the reason to have a large scale protracted war effect be? It was World War 2 and the arms industry which ended the Great Depression in America, war creates jobs. However the real criminals are not really the governments, but the companies and banks who bankroll them. Companies invested heavily in both sides during World War 2, both Axis & Allies, that way they were always going to be on the winning side. In the democratic system you need to have a reason to go to war, Pearl Harbor and the WDC were reason, but did the government help to engineer that reason, creating what Karl mentioned, the Clauswitz effect, popular support from the people. George Orwell in his book 1984 defined war and total war very well, victory or defeat is not important, whats important is the war effort should be continuous, keeping the people on the edge.
So, the end of a few old battleships, slow and unable to keep up with the carrier task forces, at Pearl provided the reason for America to have a war with Japan. Although its not a nice thing to say, and not really respectful of peoples lives, these old hulks were worth more sitting on the bottom of the harbor when you consider the American economy.
When you study Japanese American relationships during the interwar period you'll discover the writing was already on the wall, both countries were building for a war, war was only a matter of time, a question of not 'if' but 'when'. I certainly don't see the US government during this period actively seeking 'peace in our time'? So it does not require a huge amount of imagination to consider how they manipulated the event prior and post the attack on Pearl.
Poor old veteran US battleships (hulks), sitting on the bottom of the harbor, sadly that's the price you have to pay for the illusion of democracy.
Kind regards and sweet dreams
