A ship history : Scharnhorst

From the Washington Naval Treaty to the end of the Second World War.
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Ciao all,

in my personal opinion the selection of Konteradmiral Erich Bey for that command should directly be referenced to the Narvik battle results ( a big fiasco for Bey ).

Admiral Karl Donitz knew that for Scharnhorst was going to be close to a suicidal mission and needed a commander that wanted strongly to demonstrate his intention to recover for a previous very bad performance.

It is enough to read the radio messages Donitz sent to Bey for that mission to realize this situation.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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RF
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by RF » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:17 am

More importantly Donitz needed a spectacular success from the surface ships to impress and influence Hitler, who in the previous year had issued his ''scrap the battle fleet'' plan after the Barents Sea fiasco.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:39 am

Ciao all,

@ RF,

YES, I agree with you.

But Tirpitz was badly damaged by X-Crafts, ... so unusable, ... and Scharnhorst was in such poor conditions, with her engine needing 6 months works, she reached Norway with 2 propelllers working out of 3 :shock: and Neumark was sent to make local mandatory repairs just to make the ship still usable.

It was just an hazard to risk the ship and the crew this way, with many experienced sailors in Germany for Christmas substitued by cadets and some Tirpitz sailors.

More, we all know that Scharnhorst guns were 280 mm, .. and the ship was very poorly radar equipped too.

Adm Donitz ( by pushing well over the limits ) and Konteradmiral Bey ( taking too many risks at sea and separating also Scharnhorst from the escorting Destroyers radar equipped ) are the responsible for this tragedy at sea.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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RF
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by RF » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:03 am

I think they are culpable and they both made major errors - but the blame has to go to the very top, for creating the situation in the first place and failing to provide the resources for the KM surface fleet to be more battle ready. But of course it is never a dictators' fault is it, they are there to take the credit when their underlings efforts yield the right results.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:05 pm

Ciao all,

YES RF, I agree with you.

It was just 68 years ago, ... because of those situations we discussed above,...1932 out of 1968 crew members of Scharnhorst on December 26th, 1943 died during the battle of North Cape or into the frozen water soon after; only 36 survived.

Rest In Peace sailors ... on a sailor grave do not grow roses.

Bye, Antonio Bonomi
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by paulcadogan » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:40 pm

Here's a commemorative BBC article featuring the recollections of a sailor aboard the destroyer Matchless.

He describes his ship picking up survivors but being ordered from the sinking site leaving many survivors in the water - just like what happened with Bismarck. It is perhaps merciful that they would not have remained conscious very long in those freezing Arctic waters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16265665

All the best for the Season!
Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man

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RF
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by RF » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:10 pm

Unfortunately it starts with some typical ''BBC speak'' in describing Scharnhorst as ''Germanys most feared battleship.''

I thought that accolade belonged to the Bismarck...... or perhaps even Tirpitz. But not I'm afraid to a vessel that the RN classified as a battlecruiser.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:06 pm

Hello everybody,

update on Scharnhorst Baltic scheme camouflage.


http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... #msg195450

Bye Antonio :D
Attachments
SH_baltic_camo.jpg
SH_baltic_camo.jpg (145 KiB) Viewed 3596 times
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

Pandora
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Pandora » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:22 pm

...so which one is correct Antonio?

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:53 pm

Hello everybody,

@ Pandora,

the first 3 drawings so the 2003, 2004 and 2008 versions are all WRONG as it was a path I was going into to realize how that camouflage was really made !

The 4 small photos on the right bottom side are the ones that show the real camouflage that as said was NOT symmetric between the 2 sides.

Soon, ... since now I do not run anymore the risk to be copied and stolen of my work ... I will release the updated version of the drawings I have already made.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Pandora » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:08 pm

ok, so the painting was different on each side.
the small photos are not very clear but this camo scheme is from 1941 before Operation Berlin, is that correct?

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:30 am

Hello everybody,

@ Pandora,

that camo scheme was on Scharnhorst on November 1940, before Operation Berlin 1 executed in December 1940.

She was just out of 4 months works in Kiel at Deutsche Werke yards.

YES, I confirm you that the camouflage patterns were different on the 2 sides, it was NOT symmetric and identical both sides.

I started working on it on 2003, ... since 9 years, ... to find the correct patterns of this camouflage ... I have released some intermediate wrong versions of it thru the years, ... on 2003, 2004 and 2008, ... as you can see here and on Marinearchiv forum, were I have posted my works with Abram Joslin on KM warships camouflages.

I have disclosed those latest informations just to demonstrate to some "copycats" that take advantage of my KM camouflage works that when they copy they should at least use their own brain doing the job, ... not copy somebody else work blindly, ... because if like in this case it is NOT updated, ... than they run only into a miserable failure.

Being a "copycat " is a miserable destiny, ... because you really do not know what you are doing ... :wink:

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

Pandora
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Pandora » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:35 pm

november 1940 ok. thanks
Im not very familiar with German camos but I imagined those b/w stripes would be from around late 1940 or early 1941 like on Bismarck.

and dont let "copycats" discourage you! :D

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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: A ship history : Scharnhorst

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Hello everybody,

dedicated to the Scharnhorst brave crew and to her commander Kpt zur See Hintze.

Here the Scharnhorst Baltic camouflage with both sides being different.

@ Pandora,

as you can see nobody will ever discourage me :negative:

Bye Antonio :D
Attachments
New_2012_Last SH3 C Baltic_final_LR.jpg
New_2012_Last SH3 C Baltic_final_LR.jpg (89.56 KiB) Viewed 2894 times
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )

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