July 3, 2010: 70 years since Mers-el-kebir

[paulcadogan]

Another anniversary....and a sombre one at that.

1297 French sailors lost their lives under the guns of the Hood, Valiant & Resolution, supported by Ark Royal and the other ships of Force H. We will remember them.

Some observations/questions:

1) Hood is reputed to have sunk the Bretagne with her very first salvo - the third from the British force (Resolution fired first, then Valiant, then Hood) - this is probably the only time in which a capital ship sank another with her very first salvo fired in anger. What an occasion to earn such a "distinction"....

2) I've never been able to find much if any detailing of the damage done to the Dunkerque and Provence - particularly the latter. We know Dunkerque received four hits, but what were their locations, what was the damage done by each? How many and what were the locations of the hits received by Provence and what was the damage? She was run aground...was she in danger of sinking?

3) Wikipedia lists 2 casualties on Strasbourg. I would assume these were due to shrapnel during the shelling. Did the ship have any splinter damage?

4) Anyone know the status of the cemetary there? Has there been any progress on its renovation or on efforts to repatriate the sailors' remains to France? There was a website on this but it seems to be inactive now.

Paul

[Terje Langoy]

G´day all

Paul, I strongly recommend you order the book French Battleships 1922 - 1956 by authors Jordan and Dumas. It has proven itself as one of the more valuable additions to my library.

[Gary]

Thank you for posting this Paul, we should remember these sailors.

Dunkerque, according to wikipedia settled on the harbour as a result of her gunfire damage.
The real problem came 3 days later when swordfish from Ark Royal attacked and destroyed the depth charge carrying patrol boat Terre-Neuve which wa smoored alongside Dunkerque.
The resulting explosion obliterated Terre-Neuve and blew a huge hole in Dunkerque

[paulcadogan]

Paul, I strongly recommend you order the book French Battleships 1922 - 1956 by authors Jordan and Dumas. It has proven itself as one of the more valuable additions to my library.

Terje, I understand that this book covers Dunkerque but not Provence. Could you summarize what it says about Dunkerque's damage?

Gary, I don't think she settled because of the shell hits - otherwise the second attack might not have been made. They came back because they got intelligence that her damage was not serious.

Dunmunro posted an interesting NY Times commentary in the Hood forum which describes this battle as "the first great naval engagement of the war"!.....

http://www.sfu.ca/~dmunro/war_to_the_bitter_end.pdf

Paul

[Terje Langoy]

Terje, I understand that this book covers Dunkerque but not Provence. Could you summarize what it says about Dunkerque's damage?

Paul, I suggest you take a look at the thread “Fuso vs Queen Elizabeth” in the hypothetical scenario forums for info on the Dunkerque.

[paulcadogan]

Thanks Terje!

Fuso vs. QE eh??! I guess that's what happens when a thread goes off topic...and great info and debate on another subject is hidden away, you'd never guess! (And also what happens when one does not have time to browse the great variety of furums here )

I learned a lot from that discussion. Thanks again!

Paul

[paulcadogan]

Thanks Terje!

Fuso vs. QE eh??! I guess that's what happens when a thread goes off topic...and great info and debate on another subject is hidden away, you'd never guess! (And also what happens when one does not have time to browse the great variety of forums here )

I learned a lot from that discussion. Thanks again!

Paul

[RF]

Dunmunro posted an interesting NY Times commentary in the Hood forum which describes this battle as "the first great naval engagement of the war"!.....

http://www.sfu.ca/~dmunro/war_to_the_bitter_end.pdf Paul

The article was entirely correct in its description of the action, and totally wrong in assessing the appreciation of the action by the Germans and Italians, particulary the latter. They thought the war was over, the British action simply didn't register with Hitler and Mussolini because of their total ignorance of seapower.

[paulcadogan]

The article was entirely correct in its description of the action, and totally wrong in assessing the appreciation of the action by the Germans and Italians, particulary the latter. They thought the war was over, the British action simply didn't register with Hitler and Mussolini because of their total ignorance of seapower.

Remember the article was published only 3 days after the battle. I suppose it was assessing what the reaction of the Axis powers should have been....

All I can find on Provence is that she got underway, fired a salvo over Dunkerque, then was heavily hit and set on fire aft. She was beached with her bow resting on a ledge about 10 m deep.

Strasbourg was lucky to get underway quickly as a salvo - allegedly from Hood - fell precisely where she had been berthed with a shell splinter flying up to cut her flag halyards. I wonder if she suffered her 2 casualties at this time.

(From an old book I found - "The Fleet Without a Friend" by John Vader)