Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

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rtwpsom2
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Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by rtwpsom2 »

I recently obtained a copy of a Nazi propaganda fill entitled "Schlachtshiff in Farht" or "Ride in a Battleship" from user Yevgeniy. I am sorry I do not know his last name, but I thank him for the movie. It concerns life aboard a Kriegsmarine battleship and was filmed entirely on board the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. I had to break it into three parts to upload it to youtube but the results are below. Thanks again, Yevgeniy! This is an awesome movie.
You can download it from Yegeniy's source as long as he leaves it up:
http://rapidshare.com/files/392277055/L ... e.avi.html
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José M. Rico
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by José M. Rico »

Great material! Thank you very much for posting this rtwpsom2.

In the third video, from 0:07 to 0:30, we can even see how the rudder mechanism works.
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Ciao all,

I agree, very good movie clips, all " cut and paste " with no timing logic sequence as used by German Propaganda but anyway very interesting.

It is not correct that they only show Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, on the clips you can see the heavy cruiser Blucher into Kieler Fjorde on January 1940 just before they show Gneisenau on same Kieler Fjorde fully iced and with a 20 mm Flak C 30 on top Anton turret, covered with canvas.

Than you can see also the panzerschiffe Adm Scheer and the Panzerschiffe Deutschland (later Lutzow ) too.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Terje Langoy
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Post by Terje Langoy »

These clips are also featured in the documentary "Schlachtschiff Gneisenau - Flottenflaggschiff der Kriegsmarine"

Antonio

If I were to say the majority of these clips most likely was filmed aboard Gneisenau while in transit from Brunsbüttel to Wilhelmshaven after she passed the Nord-Ostsee Kanal 4th February 1940 - would you agree on that observation?
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Ciao all

@ Terje,

well being Gneisenau your favourite ship I know how much you love to know more about it.

Surely all the iced/frozen sequences were taken into Kjeler Fjorde, so Kiel on early 1940, when she was anchored into the ice with Scharnhorst and Blucher.

But than you have sequences with the air recognition trial colour on top turets and those were of late 1939 into Baltic and Kiel area, so east side of the KW Kanal.

Than you have some sequences with gun bags on the foward turrets and no more catapult on Caesar turret and those were of march 1940 at least, after the refits in February 1940.

Than you have sequences of Operation Nordmark looking at the top main turret colour that should have been RED.

So bottom line I can assess those sequences being a propaganda film starting with video recorded from the war start period on September 1939 until march 1940, before Op. Weserubung, it is a mix of everything with no timing associated, with other ships showed and even panzerschiffe firing.

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Post by Terje Langoy »

G´day to all

@ Antonio

It was indeed the turret top sequences that had me shoot for Feb 1940; in particular the one deployed during transit of the Nord-Ostsee Kanal after Admirals bridge was closed. It had me reminiscent of late photos of the "Iron Dog". (red turret top with a white circle) As I understood it this id was added before the Northern Patrol in November and maintained aboard at least until Nordmark in February.

The other turret id - dark with white stripe between turret ears - I found to be deployed for the June exercises in 39 just after Gneisenau hoisted the pennant (Admiral Böhm and staff came aboard in May) thus in effect became the fleet flagship not just on paper. Anyways I figured this id to been added at the time her anchors were moved and then slighly modified before the "Atlantikreise". (the stripe removed and front slope repainted grey as seen on photos from Las Palmas) I recollect your drawings and also Dieter Jung in the book Anstriche und Tarnanstriche claim this id to have been red but I still cannot wrap my head around the fact this id actually appear as black in the colour sequences filmed at Kiel.

Any inputs on those observations?
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by Djoser »

Wow great films of these ships, thanks!
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Antonio Bonomi
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by Antonio Bonomi »

Ciao Terje and all,

I think your observations are right on the spot and I recall having gone thru that path myself when I prepared the Gneisenau drawings with the air recognition trial markings on late 1939 and early 1940.

What always surprise me is that we are keep on learning and finding something new about it, both in format and in colours.

Surely they made lot of trials on the FLIEGERSICHTZEICHEN on all warships, and it did not stop thru 1940 and 1941.

Just think about how much they tried on Bismarck too on spring 1941 with RED colour TOP's on various fashion and format to end up with the YELLOW at the end for op. Rheinubung.

It is a never ending discovery path for persons like me that are keep on learning and researching about it, a very intriguing hobby :wink:

Bye Antonio :D
In order to honor a soldier, we have to tell the truth about what happened over there. The whole, hard, cold truth. And until we do that, we dishonor her and every soldier who died, who gave their life for their country. ( Courage Under Fire )
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Post by Olaf »

Terje Langoy wrote:G´day to all

@ Antonio

It was indeed the turret top sequences that had me shoot for Feb 1940; in particular the one deployed during transit of the Nord-Ostsee Kanal after Admirals bridge was closed. It had me reminiscent of late photos of the "Iron Dog". (red turret top with a white circle) As I understood it this id was added before the Northern Patrol in November and maintained aboard at least until Nordmark in February.

The other turret id - dark with white stripe between turret ears - I found to be deployed for the June exercises in 39 just after Gneisenau hoisted the pennant (Admiral Böhm and staff came aboard in May) thus in effect became the fleet flagship not just on paper. Anyways I figured this id to been added at the time her anchors were moved and then slighly modified before the "Atlantikreise". (the stripe removed and front slope repainted grey as seen on photos from Las Palmas) I recollect your drawings and also Dieter Jung in the book Anstriche und Tarnanstriche claim this id to have been red but I still cannot wrap my head around the fact this id actually appear as black in the colour sequences filmed at Kiel.

Any inputs on those observations?

Hi Terje ~ I'm not sure if they ever had the white circle on a red (RAL 3010) background. Unless there is no colour photo popping up, I bet for black or "Absatzfarbe Dunkelgrau" (RAL 7024).

With regard to GU and the white stripes between the "ears" (HA!) on turret Bruno, I'm sure you know the colour footage, from which the following two screenshots were taken and mirrored:

Image
Note the very tip of the f'c'sle, painted in the dark grey of the steel decks (Tr.D. 59 before 1944, RAL 7016). It's farther away than the turret top in the foreground which I believe was RAL 7024. Note the dark grey roof in the lower right corner. In the ATDK-book this appears much lighter than the roof of turret Bruno... and ... the top of the rangefinder hoods are dark as well... the fwd sloped side in the ADTK-book appears lighter, as if red, but this could be due to the angle of view. From what I know, the RAL 3010 and the RAL 7024 are almost indistinguishable on b/w photos...

Second image shows the turret group shot from the f'c'sle:
Image
It shows the fwd sloped top of the turret, appearing very dark.

If anyone has a colour photo showing something red, maybe in combination with the dark grey and white stripe, please let me know. A colourholic like me just NEEDS to know... :stubborn:

Happy painting ~ Olaf!
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Terje Langoy
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Post by Terje Langoy »

G´day all

@ Olaf

Thanks a lot for uploading those images! They are indeed extracts from the colour sequence in the documentary I was referring to in my previous post. Red is not the colour that comes to mind upon viewing these. Particularly not if you compare the oblique turret face with the capstans in the foreground on the second photo. Those capstans are logically marked - red & white for backbord, green and white for steuerbord - thus offering a colour preferance.

The dark nose of Gneisenau on the first photo would be unveiling the steel deck beneath her wooden deck. It does indeed appear as matt Dunkelgrau - as opposed to a more shiny Schwarz applied at the superfiring turret. It also provide a pretty accurate estimate to the photo, bringing forth a most logical deduction - that the anchor cluses are a recent addition. The wooden deck was restored before she set out for the Atlantikreise 12 June.

It is worth a mention that in the colour film the turret ears appear unspoiled whereas in the ADTK-book they´ve been included. To be noted the “early edition” of this air ID paint must be the one seen while at the buoy in Kiel. However at the photo at p. 165 Gneisenau is seen at sea. Bearing in mind the fact that the turret appeared different in Las Palmas I can only conclude this photo must been captured during the fleet exercises in early June. And it´s plausible Scharnhorst was there too! If you look at p 164 you see the Scharnhorst with dark turret roofs (not the oblique parts) and white circle at turret Bruno. Gneisenau had the oblique parts covered as well but had the circle shown at turret Anton. This obviously was meant to differentiate Gneisenau and Scharnhorst from the air thus the ID in question (dark and white stripe) may also been modified/enlarged to facilitate just that.

About the colour on the second air ID (dark and circle) I honestly can´t tell whether it was Kaiserrot or Dunkelgrau. But I recollect seeing photos from the Nord-Ostsee kanal transit in February where one might consider the turrets being coloured rather than black. I suggest clicking through the vast photo archives at the schlachtschiff website. It makes a good start point for further discussion...

Best regards
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneiseanu propaganda film

Post by RF »

Nice images and good screensavers....
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