USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

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jazsa80
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USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by jazsa80 »

Just out of interest what are the opinions from you guys relating to the circuit breaker fault onboard SD?

It seems it was regarded as foolish for the sparkies to tie down the breakers. But can anybody think of a viable alternative?

Im an electrician by trade and can think of no real alternative. It was in the middle of a serious battle and the breakers were tripping. If I put myself in that position I think I would do the same. The captain would have been screaming for power, and to leave the breakers off and search for the fault would have taken some time and kept the whole circuit down. But, by tying the breakers down you have a chance of 'arching into isolation' the electrical fault. By that I mean that keeping the power up to the circuit would hopefully arch away the short thereby returning power to the unaffected circuits. Dodgy as hell but what was the alternative?

Does anybody know the exact cause of the tripping breakers? I dont and cant find it anywhere.
Tiornu
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

Maybe you can find it in the Action Report of USS Massachusetts for the action off Casablanca. She managed to perform her duties, duel with Jean Bart, and help crush an enemy torpedo charge despite her electrical issues without anyone tyng down any circuit breakers.
jazsa80
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by jazsa80 »

Any idea where I can find that report?
Bgile
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Bgile »

jazsa80 wrote:Just out of interest what are the opinions from you guys relating to the circuit breaker fault onboard SD?

It seems it was regarded as foolish for the sparkies to tie down the breakers. But can anybody think of a viable alternative?

Im an electrician by trade and can think of no real alternative. It was in the middle of a serious battle and the breakers were tripping. If I put myself in that position I think I would do the same. The captain would have been screaming for power, and to leave the breakers off and search for the fault would have taken some time and kept the whole circuit down. But, by tying the breakers down you have a chance of 'arching into isolation' the electrical fault. By that I mean that keeping the power up to the circuit would hopefully arch away the short thereby returning power to the unaffected circuits. Dodgy as hell but what was the alternative?

Does anybody know the exact cause of the tripping breakers? I dont and cant find it anywhere.
I can't find particular fault with what you say, but this action was universally condemned by followup studies, so I tend to assume the troubleshooting method was the preferred approach. Apparently by tieing down the one breaker they caused the ship to lose power to a larger area than that breaker serviced. I suspect other crews in similar situations were able to isolate the fault pretty quickly.
Tiornu
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

Any idea where I can find that report?
Hm. Are you in the US? If you're near DC, you're right in the middle of all the top USN archives.
There are excerpts from the report in Operational Experience of Fast Battleships by Reilly, which may or may not include the relevant sections. The book is worth chasing down anyway.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by dunmunro »

Tiornu wrote:
Any idea where I can find that report?
Hm. Are you in the US? If you're near DC, you're right in the middle of all the top USN archives.
There are excerpts from the report in Operational Experience of Fast Battleships by Reilly, which may or may not include the relevant sections. The book is worth chasing down anyway.
The USN Damage Report for South Dakota can be found here:

http://www.dcfp.navy.mil/mc/museum/War_Damage/57.pdf

There is a discussion of the electrical failure starting at paragraph 43.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

That won't help you very much. The report was whitewashed to cover up what had happened. You may look in vain for any reference to the sabotage.
jazsa80
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by jazsa80 »

Tiornu wrote:That won't help you very much. The report was whitewashed to cover up what had happened. You may look in vain for any reference to the sabotage.
Is that your opinion or is that a proven fact? (Just asking)

The report makes alot of sense. The way I read it is that as a result of certain switchgear operating two generator ended up feeding the one circuit. A synch fault occured, giving the sytem a kick in the pants.

Seems she was only off line for 3 mins max.

I wouldnt be one to start abusing the electricans on board anyway. With all the breakers that were popping as a result of severed and shortered circuits It would have been Kaos in the switch rooms.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

The sabotage is well established, and I understand it serves as a case study in USN training to this day. Capt Gatch attempted to enlist others in his spin on the night's events and was not well received. Gatch appears to have had a great affection for his crew. It may be that he was too much a friend and too little a commander. I don't believe his career continued upward after his time aboard SoDak ended.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Bill Jurens »

"...the sabotage is 'well established'. Interesting. Can you provide a well established source, please?

Bill Jurens
Tiornu
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

Yes, sir! Admiral Hooper mentions it in his oral histories. It is cited also in G&D, so maybe Mr G can give you additional sources.
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RF
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by RF »

Tiornu wrote:Maybe you can find it in the Action Report of USS Massachusetts for the action off Casablanca. She managed to perform her duties, duel with Jean Bart, and help crush an enemy torpedo charge despite her electrical issues without anyone tyng down any circuit breakers.
I presume that the Massachusetts was engaging Vichy French forces here prior to their defection to De Gualle - presumably the action was not so serious as to endanger seriously the ship, as all the reports I have seen indicate the Vichy French only put up a token resistence?
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Bgile »

RF wrote: I presume that the Massachusetts was engaging Vichy French forces here prior to their defection to De Gualle - presumably the action was not so serious as to endanger seriously the ship, as all the reports I have seen indicate the Vichy French only put up a token resistence?
I invite you to read the accounts. It didn't look token to me at all. There were a number of engagements with French ships in addition to the artillery duel between Massachussettes and Jean Bart.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Tiornu »

French light forces threw themselves in a nearly suicidal charge against an overwhelming American force. I don't recall if any of the French ships survived.
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Re: USS South Dakota Electrical Faults

Post by Nlneff »

Of the 10 ships (1 Light cruiser, CL Primauguet and 9 destroyers) listed in the Navweaps order of battle, only DD L'Alcyon, DD Tempete, and DD Simoun surivived. In terms of near suicidal courage, the charge of the French fleet at Torch ranks with Samar, IMHO.
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