Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awesome

From the Washington Naval Treaty to the end of the Second World War.
dunmunro
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Post by dunmunro »

Bgile wrote:RF,

I agree with your antiwar sentiments. War is sometimes necessary, but it helps to learn from the past. Here in the US we have a very small percentage of citizens who have actually been in combat. That's what tends to happen when you have a professional military.

The Iraq war was a grand adventure with naive expectations for what happens afterward. It also involved misleading the American public regarding the danger it presented to us, and now I believe we have made our position in the world and our economy much worse as a result.

If we hadn't been involved in Iraq we'd have been able to live up to our commitments to the Afghan people, and now it may be too late.
I agree completely with this statement.
madmike
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by madmike »

Hi John and welcome to the madhouse(forum), I live in Aus and for what its worth mate your doing a BLOODY great job. Getting the kids interested in the Hood and Bismarck (the whole design/research and the building of these models), is wonderful, the self esteem you give those young men, shows you to be a thoughtful and caring person. And if i might suggest some other ships your students might like to build, then how about the British county class Heavy cruisers, i think quite a few were built on the Clyde.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by madmike »

people people people. And still after all the wars in human history WE (the human species) have not learned the most important lesson of all. WE ALL BLEED THE SAME COLOUR. I dont think anyone on these forums would glorify war. I would like to think most of the people on here would find johns work a good thing, And to follow on with another point, My father served in the RAN, When i asked him why he joined the navy, he told me he got to see the HMS Hood as a young man and the sheer size and BEAUTY of her(and he called her bloody awesome), captured him. He told me the story of the Bismarck and Hood when i was about 7 or 8, and that story captured me. But were he joined the navy, I joined the Army, The idea of swimming home (if things went bad) never really appealed to me.

WE give thanks to those who fought and sacrificed so much for us. and RESPECT those who fell as our enemies. Good men on both sides.

WE GROW NOT OLD AS THOSE WHO ARE LEFT GROW OLD, NOR THE YEARS CONDEMN, AT THE GOING DOWN OF THE SUN AND IN THE MORNING. WE SHALL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET
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RF
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by RF »

madmike wrote: WE give thanks to those who fought and sacrificed so much for us. and RESPECT those who fell as our enemies. Good men on both sides.

WE GROW NOT OLD AS THOSE WHO ARE LEFT GROW OLD, NOR THE YEARS CONDEMN, AT THE GOING DOWN OF THE SUN AND IN THE MORNING. WE SHALL REMEMBER THEM. LEST WE FORGET
Hear Hear.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

:ok:
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by wallsmacker Art »

As a new member, I have only just seen this post, but it struck me how important it is. Many young people, and even not so young now, know nothing of the history of the Hood and the Bismarck, and its significance in WWII. I am just finishing Iain Ballantyne's excellent book "Killing the Bismarck", which has been an excellent resource for my current project of painting both battleships in time for the 70th anniversary in May. I shall put a proper review of the book on this forum in due course. As the original post states, the Hood/Bismarck story captures the imagination and is full of interest, both technical and human. I hope those of you who know about this will join in my "launching the Bismarck" painting project on [url]http:www.wall-smacker-art.com[/url] , and contribute to the open forum as the painting develops. If the original member who posted this article is still in touch with the site, and he is still in touch with the pupils who built the model, perhaps he would like to bring it to their attention too.
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Re:

Post by Djoser »

paulcadogan wrote:
To RF, I see where you're coming from, and we all understand the horrors of war. When it comes to kids, I find that though you may try to include this when you introduce the subject to them, they are most impressed by the machines, the planes, the ships and their big guns! As they get older their appreciation will increase for the bravery, the pain, the sacrifice, the death and destruction that warfare brings.

I can recall it being that way for me as I grew up and I am currently seeing it in an 8 year old nephew who is fascinated by the ships, planes and battles (thanks to his uncle!!) and has watched "Sink the Bismarck", "Tora Tora Tora", "Midway", "Battle of Britain" etc. over and over. Now, he gets very sombre when we talk about the loss of life involved, but the naval or air battle itself remains exciting. I have no doubt that in the future he will pass all of it on to his children and others and encounter the same response. Ultimately, the memory of those who sacrificed themselves, and the great ships they crewed will live on.

So everyone, though we have differences in opinion, and may make mistakes for one reason or other, let's continue to be appreciative, learn from each other and move forward!

Paul
This pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. When I was a kid I didn't think about the suffering of the men and boys getting blown to bits, trapped in compartments as their ships sank, or freezing to death after watching their only hope of rescue after a terrible ordeal steaming away due to a false submarine alert. I thought about how cool and awesome the Bismarck and the Hood were.

Then as an adult I finally figured it out. But I do think the men serving on both ships would have heartily agreed that both ships were indeed 'awesome', to use the literal meaning of a word which has been trivialized in popular culture.

I have a great deal of respect for RF, I think he was trying to make a valid point. But of course what CompassPlatform was doing (and hopefully still is) is really quite admirable--especially when you consider the handicaps some of those kids making the apparently pretty impressive models were dealing with. I think the crewmen of both ships would have felt honored that so much time and effort was spent creating detailed, accurate replicas of their magnificent vessels, so that their story might not be forgotten. God knows I would have leaped at the chance to help build one of these in high school!

I would love to see the photographs of these models.

I am glad that we seem to have reached an accord.
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Re:

Post by Djoser »

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Curtis Le May knew his stuff...

Bgile:

If Curtis LeMay had had his way, the entire area which used to be known as the Soviet Union would now be a radioactive wasteland.
So what? Nobody would have wept for Nazi Germany being a nuclear wasteland. A lot of us would have never cared less for the commies.
Since we don't have nearly as many troops with which to keep order as Genghis Khan did, I have to assume your solution to the Iraqi problem would be to nuke all the cites and spread radioactivity in the direction of the prevailing winds.
Genghis Khan never tried to patrol those areas... he nuked them medieval style...
Agreed about Genghis--and let's not forget Tamerlane!

But the problem with nuking every nasty dictatorship that pisses the rest of us off is, that every time it happens we wipe out another section of Earth. First we nuke the Nazis, then we nuke the commies, then we nuke the next middle eastern nation that pisses us off, and on it goes. Eventually we will run out of room. Hiroshima, nasty as it was, at least didn't leave permanently poisoned land and huge clouds of fallout killing people several hundred miles down the airstream.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by Bgile »

I would have hoped you would care about killing millions of people and not just the land that is then unavailable.
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RF
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by RF »

This is the whole problem isn't it? War is sanitized into something clean and painless, by removing all the blood and guts in what you see. A lot of western films are like this, where you have gunfights with no blood or visible injuries, the man shot dead just falls to the ground without suffering any visible harm. Even Sink the Bismarck! is a like that, if you look closely.
This is largely why war films are so popular, it is entertainment without the unpeasant side of war and fighting getting in the way.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by Bgile »

RF wrote:This is the whole problem isn't it? War is sanitized into something clean and painless, by removing all the blood and guts in what you see. A lot of western films are like this, where you have gunfights with no blood or visible injuries, the man shot dead just falls to the ground without suffering any visible harm. Even Sink the Bismarck! is a like that, if you look closely.
This is largely why war films are so popular, it is entertainment without the unpeasant side of war and fighting getting in the way.
I can only assume you haven't seen many modern war films.
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RF
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by RF »

I have, and I suspect that you are aware from the multitude of previous posts on this forum, that I have seen and commented on a lot of recent war films.

I think that my post made it clear that I was referring to the output of US and British films made in a much earlier period, and even today a lot of films are made sanitized and politically correct.

Films like ''Saving Private Ryan'' do show the reality of war, but these films tend to be a minority of the industry output.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by Bgile »

RF wrote:I have, and I suspect that you are aware from the multitude of previous posts on this forum, that I have seen and commented on a lot of recent war films.

I think that my post made it clear that I was referring to the output of US and British films made in a much earlier period, and even today a lot of films are made sanitized and politically correct.

Films like ''Saving Private Ryan'' do show the reality of war, but these films tend to be a minority of the industry output.
Just from memory, Full Metal Jacket, Letters from Iwo Jima, Pacific, Band of Brothers, Thin Red Line ... I'm sure I've left out some Vietnam films (Deer Hunter, for example and at least one Clint Eastwood production about a bloody assaut on a hill and a Mel Gibson one about the 1st CAv).

Not sure which sanitized ones you are referring to.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by RF »

I'm referring to the films made from the late 1940's up to the 1970's, particulary US westerns and British war films, all made before the films you cite and back in the days of censorship over the portrayal of violence not suitable for family viewing.
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Re: Th story of the Hood and the Bismarck is 'cool' and 'awe

Post by sailor »

If you ever check back here , Compass Platform, I want to add my thanks and admiration for the terrific job you have done. With the loss of Mr. Briggs and the battle of DS over 70 years past, your efforts to instil a sense of history and respect into your pupils is truly magnificent. Thank you.
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