Upper, Weather, Spar Deck. Or: What am I standing on?

[AThompson]

Hi, all.

As most of us, I assume, I read a lot of naval stuffs in books, fact and fiction, and I always seem to get confused when authors talk about "upper" decks.

Now in a 74 ship-of-the-line, say, of the late 18th Century you have a Poop at the aft, then the Quarterdeck forward, then two gangways, larboard and starboard, that link the Quarterdeck with the Forecastle (though not always linked), right?

It is my understanding that the "upper" deck is the upper gundeck that runs fore and aft underneath the Forecastle and Quarterdeck. Below that is the Lower gundeck, then Orlop, etc, etc.

However, I've read a few times that the Quarterdeck/Forecastle decks are called the upper deck, and sometimes the weather or spar deck*

Can someone explain all these uppers and decks to me, please?

*Though I "think" a spar deck is when the Quarterdeck and Forecastle are one continuous deck without a gap in the waist, though I might be wrong.

[marcelo_malara]

Hi, all.

As most of us, I assume, I read a lot of naval stuffs in books, fact and fiction, and I always seem to get confused when authors talk about "upper" decks.

Now in a 74 ship-of-the-line, say, of the late 18th Century you have a Poop at the aft, then the Quarterdeck forward, then two gangways, larboard and starboard, that link the Quarterdeck with the Forecastle (though not always linked), right?

It is my understanding that the "upper" deck is the upper gundeck that runs fore and aft underneath the Forecastle and Quarterdeck. Below that is the Lower gundeck, then Orlop, etc, etc.

However, I've read a few times that the Quarterdeck/Forecastle decks are called the upper deck, and sometimes the weather or spar deck*

Can someone explain all these uppers and decks to me, please?

*Though I "think" a spar deck is when the Quarterdeck and Forecastle are one continuous deck without a gap in the waist, though I might be wrong.

Hi. The upper deck is the highest deck that goes from stem to stern, a definition that comes to this day. There is no way a forecastle deck is called an upper deck, even in ships like Hood whose forecastle deck reaches X turret. Weather deck as its names implies is any deck exposed to the elements, which is confusing because along the ship different decks are exposed. I saw it most commonly applied to the deck above the superstructure. Spar deck is any deck from which the spars and sails are managed, again this is done from different decks along the ship, the foremast would the handled from the forecastle deck, the mainmast from the upper, and the mizzen from the quarterdeck. Adding to the confusion, quarterdeck is also called the portion of the upper deck close to the stern!

[AThompson]

Hi, all.

As most of us, I assume, I read a lot of naval stuffs in books, fact and fiction, and I always seem to get confused when authors talk about "upper" decks.

Now in a 74 ship-of-the-line, say, of the late 18th Century you have a Poop at the aft, then the Quarterdeck forward, then two gangways, larboard and starboard, that link the Quarterdeck with the Forecastle (though not always linked), right?

It is my understanding that the "upper" deck is the upper gundeck that runs fore and aft underneath the Forecastle and Quarterdeck. Below that is the Lower gundeck, then Orlop, etc, etc.

However, I've read a few times that the Quarterdeck/Forecastle decks are called the upper deck, and sometimes the weather or spar deck*

Can someone explain all these uppers and decks to me, please?

*Though I "think" a spar deck is when the Quarterdeck and Forecastle are one continuous deck without a gap in the waist, though I might be wrong.

Hi. The upper deck is the highest deck that goes from stem to stern, a definition that comes to this day. There is no way a forecastle deck is called an upper deck, even in ships like Hood whose forecastle deck reaches X turret. Weather deck as its names implies is any deck exposed to the elements, which is confusing because along the ship different decks are exposed. I saw it most commonly applied to the deck above the superstructure. Spar deck is any deck from which the spars and sails are managed, again this is done from different decks along the ship, the foremast would the handled from the forecastle deck, the mainmast from the upper, and the mizzen from the quarterdeck. Adding to the confusion, quarterdeck is also called the portion of the upper deck close to the stern!

Interesting that, so if you're handling the ropes of the mainmast, you're physically in the waist? Which is actually the upper gun deck with the forecastle, gangplanks, and quarterdeck above you?

[marcelo_malara]

Interesting that, so if you're handling the ropes of the mainmast, you're physically in the waist? Which is actually the upper gun deck with the forecastle, gangplanks, and quarterdeck above you?

Yes, that´s right, only that I have not seen it named upper gun deck, just upper deck.

More confusing, the deck below that one can be the main deck, the battery deck or the middle deck. But if you are on a ship of the USN in the modern era the main deck is the British upper deck!

[Byron Angel]

Marcelo was covered the topic well indeed.

Re typical gun distribution (by decks) in the Age of Sail - at least by Royal Navy standards:

Three-decker ROYAL GEORGE Class 100 guns (as designed circa 1790)
Lower Deck - 30 x 32lbrs
Middle Deck - 28 x 24lbrs
Upper Deck - 30 x 12 lbrs
Quarter Deck - 10 x 12 lbrs
Forecastle - 2 x 12 lbrs

Two-decker BRUNSWICK Class 74 guns (as designed circa late 1780s)
Lower Deck - 28 x 32lbrs
Upper Deck - 30 x 18 lbrs
Quarter Deck - 12 x 9 lbrs
Forecastle - 4 x 9 lbrs

Frigate AMPHION Class 32 guns (as commissioned circa late 1790s)
Upper Deck - 26 x 18 lbrs
Quarter Deck - 4 x 6 lbrs + 4 x 24 lbr carronades
Forecastle - 2 x 6 lbrs + 2 x 24lrr carronades


This, I hope, will help to clarify the deck nomenclature among multi-decked ships (


Notes -
> In British service, the Quarterdeck was the weather-deck area between the Mainmast and the Mizzenmast. The weather-deck area between the Mainmast and the Foremast only had port and starboard gangways; the midships (center) area was left open to the deck below, with the heavy exposed transverse structural deck beams used for stowage of the ship's boats. And you are correct, deck nomenclature could differ depending upon the navy under discussion.

> One other note - You will find from time to time reference made to guns mounted the "poop deck", particularly in connection with British three-deckers. The poop deck was the deck space above the captain's/admiral's cabin at the very stern of the ship abaft the Mizzenmast. When carronades began to appear among line-of-battle ships in the latter part of the American War of Independence), you will from time to time find reference made to lightweight 12lbr, 18lbr (sometimes 24lbr) carronades being mounted there.

> I've tried to keep things straightforward and simple; I'm not trying to cram every possible nuance into this. How deep into the Age of Sail are you planning to go?


Hope this helps .....


Byron

[AThompson]

Thanks, guys. That's making sense.

In reference to handling the rope of the mainmast in the waist/upper deck, how could you handle the ropes if the waist was full of ship's boats? Was there anywhere on the upper deck to tie off the ropes?

I often wondered how you handled the ropes of the mainmast as there essentially isn't a deck at the mainmast, just the waist which is open to the upper deck below. I just assume all ropes where handled on the quarterdeck?

[marcelo_malara]

Thanks, guys. That's making sense.

In reference to handling the rope of the mainmast in the waist/upper deck, how could you handle the ropes if the waist was full of ship's boats? Was there anywhere on the upper deck to tie off the ropes?

I often wondered how you handled the ropes of the mainmast as there essentially isn't a deck at the mainmast, just the waist which is open to the upper deck below. I just assume all ropes where handled on the quarterdeck?

Masting and rigging, complex subject! In general, all running rigging (correct name for the ropes that controlled yards and sails) for the yards ended at the base of the corresponding mast, or at the sides near the shrouds (which were part of the standing rigging, along with the stays)- Exception to this for example are the braces, that controlled the horizontal angle of the yard and went from each yardarm to the mast behind, except for those of the mizzen that went to the main.

[marcelo_malara]

Interesting images.

[OpanaPointer]

I read Hornblower when I was in junior high. Nearly killed two librarians as they sought reference materials.

Oh, and the boats were often stowed on the centerline, made for better trim of the ship.