A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
- José M. Rico
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A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
Hello all,
According to the following page, this 38cm shell now on display was found unexploded in 1968 in Ullsfjord, Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tirpitz_shell_02.jpg
It looks like it is a 38cm Spgr. L/4,5 HE shell. But something does not fit here, the black arrow pointing at the nose obviously denotes a nose-fused shell, however, as far as I know 38cm Spgr. L/4,5 shells were all base fused. The 38cm nose fused shells were L/4,6 calibers long not L/4,5. Any thoughts?
According to the following page, this 38cm shell now on display was found unexploded in 1968 in Ullsfjord, Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tirpitz_shell_02.jpg
It looks like it is a 38cm Spgr. L/4,5 HE shell. But something does not fit here, the black arrow pointing at the nose obviously denotes a nose-fused shell, however, as far as I know 38cm Spgr. L/4,5 shells were all base fused. The 38cm nose fused shells were L/4,6 calibers long not L/4,5. Any thoughts?
Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
It would be interesting to know who identified it and how.
- celticmarine10
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
I was going to ask this. How was it identified? How long has it been displayed?lwd wrote:It would be interesting to know who identified it and how.
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
What were the circumstances of the find? Underwater? If not it would seem rather a large object to hide and not be found for such a long time....
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
The L4.5 was also a capped projectile, like the APC L4.4,and so would have had a similar external appearance. This is probably the Spgr.m.Kz. L/4,6 fuzed with Z.Z s60 nA time fuze for use in anti-aircraft barrages.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
- José M. Rico
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
Just found this other pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12477606@N03/2663836347
The description plaque below gives a lenght for the shell of 173 cm.
I also believe this is a Spgr. L/4,6 Kz shell. Maybe they put the wrong lenght L/4.5 when the shell was restored/repainted for display. Who knows.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12477606@N03/2663836347
The description plaque below gives a lenght for the shell of 173 cm.
I also believe this is a Spgr. L/4,6 Kz shell. Maybe they put the wrong lenght L/4.5 when the shell was restored/repainted for display. Who knows.
- Terje Langoy
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G´day all
Denne granat ble skutt ut fra det tyske slagskipet "Tirpitz" som var ankret opp i Håkøybotn under flyangrep den 29. oktober 1944.
"This shell was fired from the German battleship "Tirpitz" while at anchor at Håkøybotn during an airstrike 29 October 1944"
I flyangrepet deltok 39 stk. engelske bombefly av typen Lancaster fra RAFs 617. og 9. skvadron. Flyene kom direkte fra England, over Lyngsfjellene og Sjursnes mot Tromsø.
"The airstrike consisted of 39 Lancaster bomber planes from RAF´s 617th and 9th squadron. These planes came from England, arriving above Lyngfjellene (nearby mountains) and Sjursnes (this shell is displayed at Sjursnes in Ullsfjord) heading towards Tromsø."
Granaten falt ned i en myr omlag 800 meter herfra uten å eksplodere. Den ble funnet under nybrottsarbeid høsten 1967.
"The shell struck down in a bog about 800 meter from here (Sjursnes) without detonating. It was recovered during excavation work in the autumn of 1967."
I believe this answer your question, Robert.
Best regards
...here´s a translation of the Norwegian text below the photo of Jose´s most recent post:RF wrote:What were the circumstances of the find? Underwater? If not it would seem rather a large object to hide and not be found for such a long time....
Denne granat ble skutt ut fra det tyske slagskipet "Tirpitz" som var ankret opp i Håkøybotn under flyangrep den 29. oktober 1944.
"This shell was fired from the German battleship "Tirpitz" while at anchor at Håkøybotn during an airstrike 29 October 1944"
I flyangrepet deltok 39 stk. engelske bombefly av typen Lancaster fra RAFs 617. og 9. skvadron. Flyene kom direkte fra England, over Lyngsfjellene og Sjursnes mot Tromsø.
"The airstrike consisted of 39 Lancaster bomber planes from RAF´s 617th and 9th squadron. These planes came from England, arriving above Lyngfjellene (nearby mountains) and Sjursnes (this shell is displayed at Sjursnes in Ullsfjord) heading towards Tromsø."
Granaten falt ned i en myr omlag 800 meter herfra uten å eksplodere. Den ble funnet under nybrottsarbeid høsten 1967.
"The shell struck down in a bog about 800 meter from here (Sjursnes) without detonating. It was recovered during excavation work in the autumn of 1967."
I believe this answer your question, Robert.
Best regards
- Terje Langoy
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G´day all
I believe Thomas is once more correct:
From a discussion in a norwegian forum (Kystfort) I found this info on the shell:
The markings of the shell is remade post-war, the ballistic cap not being part of the findings. When the shell was recovered from the bog it did not have a cap due to the shell being equipped with a time fuzed fire detonator (?) when fired against the incoming airstrike.
TSA is short for “Tromsø Sjøforsvarsavnitt” (section of the naval command, seated in Tromsø) and these were the ones responsible for clearing the shell of explosives, repainting it and add new markings.
Hope this adds useful info
Best regards
I believe Thomas is once more correct:
tommy303 wrote:The L4.5 was also a capped projectile, like the APC L4.4,and so would have had a similar external appearance. This is probably the Spgr.m.Kz. L/4,6 fuzed with Z.Z s60 nA time fuze for use in anti-aircraft barrages.
From a discussion in a norwegian forum (Kystfort) I found this info on the shell:
The markings of the shell is remade post-war, the ballistic cap not being part of the findings. When the shell was recovered from the bog it did not have a cap due to the shell being equipped with a time fuzed fire detonator (?) when fired against the incoming airstrike.
TSA is short for “Tromsø Sjøforsvarsavnitt” (section of the naval command, seated in Tromsø) and these were the ones responsible for clearing the shell of explosives, repainting it and add new markings.
Hope this adds useful info
Best regards
- José M. Rico
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
Thanks a lot Terje for the additional information!
It's great to have someone up there in Norway around.
It's great to have someone up there in Norway around.
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
Colors
Panzersprenggranate- blue
Sprengranate -yellow
Übungsgranate-red
Tip of projectile - black means charged projectile but only the tip not the complete ballistic cap
Arrow -where is the fuze situated also wrong position should be on the ballistic cap
white ring-center of gravity
Identifier
800 kg mass of projectile
+- weight class
380mm SPRGR as far as i know not used
L 4,5 seems wrong should be 4,6
TNT as identifier definately not used should be somewhat cryptical like
Spl-c- Rdf-2.41 - Sprengladung c fabricated in Rheinsdorf 1941 2nd. delivery
german burster charges were composed from different TNT Wax Compositions depending on the position in the projectile
example: 10/80, 5/80, 100
meaning (10 (wax) 90 (TNT)
front partialcharges contain more wax to decrease impact sensitivity
ZDL -1 Zündladung 1 ignition charge
explosives content hexogen 37,8 g
+
1ZUS Zusatzkörper (extension ignitioncharge)
KZ C28ST Kopfzünder C 28 Standard
Panzersprenggranate- blue
Sprengranate -yellow
Übungsgranate-red
Tip of projectile - black means charged projectile but only the tip not the complete ballistic cap
Arrow -where is the fuze situated also wrong position should be on the ballistic cap
white ring-center of gravity
Identifier
800 kg mass of projectile
+- weight class
380mm SPRGR as far as i know not used
L 4,5 seems wrong should be 4,6
TNT as identifier definately not used should be somewhat cryptical like
Spl-c- Rdf-2.41 - Sprengladung c fabricated in Rheinsdorf 1941 2nd. delivery
german burster charges were composed from different TNT Wax Compositions depending on the position in the projectile
example: 10/80, 5/80, 100
meaning (10 (wax) 90 (TNT)
front partialcharges contain more wax to decrease impact sensitivity
ZDL -1 Zündladung 1 ignition charge
explosives content hexogen 37,8 g
+
1ZUS Zusatzkörper (extension ignitioncharge)
KZ C28ST Kopfzünder C 28 Standard
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!
Re:
A rather unusual and unexpected fate.... Norway being mountainous and deep valleys, there is surely little surface relief for boggy terrain.Terje Langoy wrote: "The shell struck down in a bog about 800 meter from here (Sjursnes) without detonating. It was recovered during excavation work in the autumn of 1967."
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.
Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
I think, but could be wrong, only in APC and base-fuzed HE. Nose-fuzed HE would have had a uniform composition throughout as there was no need to desensitize the forward TNT blocks, and since these were around the gaine, it would not have been desirable in any case.front partial charges contain more wax to decrease impact sensitivity
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood and Earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned these defended;
And saved the sum of things for pay.
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Re: A 38cm shell from Tirpitz
Tommy is correct sorrytommy303 wrote:I think, but could be wrong, only in APC and base-fuzed HE. Nose-fuzed HE would have had a uniform composition throughout as there was no need to desensitize the forward TNT blocks, and since these were around the gaine, it would not have been desirable in any case.front partial charges contain more wax to decrease impact sensitivity
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!