Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

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marcelo_malara
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:49 pm

No, it was a naval battery.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:18 pm

15cm Krupps guns ? Is that battery still there ? Also I saw mention of some 57mm ( 6 pounder guns ) Any more details on those , anyone ?
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:29 pm

No data in the book about the gun´s makers. About if they are still there, I think Antonio can tell that. I presume they are not, as he would have included some photos of them.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:47 pm

Perhaps the emplacements are , unless later building has swallowed them , but that is a pretty rural area . I'll have another look at Google Earth and see if I can see anything there .
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:13 pm

I think I found them. 59°40 m 12 s N 10° 38 m E, you will see the emplacements plus some user´s photos.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:37 pm

Sorry, I was wrong, it was a battery known as Veisving. Look at this photo http://static.panoramio.com/photos/orig ... 128820.jpg of that museum, on the lower right corner you will see a map with the location of the Kopas battery, the letters are a little blurred.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:38 pm

Thanks marcelo .

I found that one - another three of those big Armstrong guns to match the three opposite in Oscarbourg , plus a funny size bigger piece by norskekannon .

There is also a big brick and stone fortress east and a bit north of this ,( showing as a green space with wiggle lines ) .

I cant find the Kopas or Husvik sites though , somewhere around that wooded headland east of Oscarbourg fort island , about 59-40'-23" N 10-37'-21" E Judging by that noticeboard sketch plan you posted is my best guess , the sites may be hidden by the trees , you'd probably have to poke about on the ground to spot them .
Mind you , 6 inch naval guns need a fair big concrete mount under them . Odd we cant see anything .
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:06 pm

After reading "The German Invasion of Norway" I got a little obsessed with the operation, and I looked for emplacements in other places, liker Bergen and Trondheim. Not all the existing ones in 1940 are now preserved, I couldn´t found any trace of some of them, albeit having a map with the location. Today i found this page abut the operation http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/norge/, there is a page with some maps of the fortifications http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/norge/ ... tions.html. The ultimate person to find out any specific info is Terje, he would be around the forum.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:03 pm

Thanks Marcelo , that just about wraps it up , there are most of the weapons types there in photos .
It would seem that as is usually the case with these giant fortress schemes , the countries involved spend an ocean of national wealth to create them and make them absolutely attack proof , and then when they are eventually attacked , the designed defense manpower is never there to use them effectively .
Perhaps the German Naval staff were relying on that .
Very silly not to have assaulted the forts overnight using light craft carrying infantry and combat engineers before trying to take the ships through at dawn .
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:49 pm

Very silly not to have assaulted the forts overnight using light craft carrying infantry and combat engineers before trying to take the ships through at dawn
As far as I remeber, a landing party was only prepared for a battery in Narvik. In the rest of the targets, the ships were supposed to pass thru. Not much opposition was expected as there was no state of war then.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:10 pm

Pretty optimistic .
In peacetime coups-de-main of this sort , the thing to fear is not so much that you will run into an organised defense under the control of the assigned command , so much as that acting-corporal Smith will be the senior man on watch on the night , and will let fly with everything that he has .
I think the German Army General tasked as Operation C-in-C for the Norway Occupation is on record as saying that there were no military scenario plans in the files at the German General Staff Centre , so he went out and bought a Baedecker tourist Guide for Norway and worked up a scheme from that , but it is puzzling that the Kreigsmarine appear to have done little more , SOMEONE must have sailed up that fijord before ( in happier times ) and noted that point as a real rat-trap .
Or is this an intelligence failure , like the Fallschirmjaeger being dropped onto Crete having been briefed that they would get a friendly welcome from the local population .
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:57 am

According to "The German invasion of Norway" a group fo officers leaded by Capt. Krancke were tasked to develop a plan for the invasion in secrecy. They proceded accordingly, and after that a man was chosen as C-inC i of the op. That was von Falkenhorst, who was asked by Hitler if he would accept the appointment. Hitler gave him a few hours to make up his mind, and he proceded to buy the guide to analyze the feasbility of the assault. But that doesn´t mean the the invasion was planned based on it. After reading that book, I am in the process of reading "Hitler Pre-emptive was", which has a strong emphasys on the land campaign. The geography of Norway is quiet complicated, and I don´t see that the whole op could have been planned with such a guide, surely much detailed maps would have been used.

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by marcelo_malara » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:12 am

Respect of the optimism about the op, I think there wasn´t really a sense that any oposition would be offered. The troops sailed on warships, most of them with a planned landing on docks, there were no assault crafts. The message they were instructed to give to the Norwegians was "we come as friends". Even the rules of engagement were "only fire after being fired upon".

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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by RF » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:10 pm

It seems clear from the evidence presented here that the Norwegians were simply relied upon not to open fire. Indeed it sems from the evidence I have seen that the German ships were expected to bluff their way in; the Germans had no means of launching a true amphibious assault, and no prior experience of doing so.
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Re: Oscarburg fortress in Drobak Narrows, Oslofijord

Post by hammy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:03 pm

There would seem to have been a fair amount of right wing sympathy among the Norwegian population at the time , judging by the degree of support for Vidkun Quisling , the subsequent recruitment to the SS Wiking Division , and so on . Or is this more a case of unworldly insularity ?
Also , a number of the Norwegian naval vessels appear to have been tamely let fall into German hands , which I believe was something that the late King Haakon wanted forgotten and buried after the end of the war .
Is that still a bit of an off-limits subject of discussion in Norway today , or has emotion cooled sufficiently for historical comment ?
Terje ?
Some of these ships ( three modern small torpedo-boote types , and a minelayer , Olaf Tryggvassen ) could have been useful , if only on North sea convoy escort , had they managed to get over here , as most of the mobile Dutch units did .
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