Luftwaffe torpedo planes

[RF]

Would it have been technically feasible for the Me 109 and Me 110 fighter planes to have been developed/adapted for use as torpedo bombers?

Did the Germans develop a specific torpedo bomber aircraft as the Italians did with the SM79?

[Tiornu]

The Germans had a great torpedo biplane, the Fi 167, but since they weren't excited about carrier aircraft, they built only a dozen so. They did not have a specialized multi-engine torpedo bomber, though the He 111 did a fair amount of torpedo work. There was a chance for developing a torpedo-bomber version of the FW 190, but no one would have dared to try it with a 109.
The Germans in general had little use for torpedo bombing prior to the outbreak of war. As I recall, they had to borrow Italian aerial torpedoes at one point since their own production was so skimpy.

[Admiral-scheer]

That is very true that they would not dare to try and place one on a BF-109. Its frame simply just could not support it, being so weak and flimsy (not weak but just less solid). Most of its regualar loads were not too big either. At its time it was considered good (It was picked from a design contest).

The Fw-190 was a good design, as a lot more pilots became aces with it. After its release in 1941 it quickly started replace the old Bf-109s. I believe that they could be equiped with torpedos but I don't think it was really considered as it did lower the performance (but it could still perform well).

As for the carrier I believe it was planned to have 20 of those Fi 167 and 20 Ju-87 Stuka's and Bf-109 (apprently despite Fw-190 making more aces, the other German aces still perfered the Bf-109). It all has to do with Goring and Raeder with fighting over the carrier.

[RF]

Would it have been technically feasible to strengthen the frame of a 109 to take the weight of the payload? I presume that this implies a more powerful engine as well.

The Zero could perform both as fighter and torpedo bomber, but did it not also have a fairly light frame, that had little resistance to US fighter damage/AA fire damage?

[marcelo_malara]

The Zero could perform both as fighter and torpodo bomber

Zero carrying torpedoes? Was it ever tried?

[José M. Rico]

RF must be mistaking the "Zero" for the "Kate".

[Tiornu]

The A6M7 introduced fittings for a bomb as large as 500kg. It began production in May 1945. That was the heaviest weapons load for any Zeke. So, as suspected, no torpedo-Zekes.

[RF]

Jose, I hadn't specifically confused the Zero with a Kate, the latter I believe was a three man monoplane.

A number of non-specialist references to WW2 have described the Zero in general terms as a fighter aircraft, dive bomber and torpedo bomber, I can only assume this was done as a generalisation without knowledge of the specific use of the Zero. It may also be the case that the Zero and Kate looked fairly alike from a distance, the Kate may have been mistaken for a Zero, just as Bismarck and Prinz Eugen had similar profiles?

[RF]

The A6M7 introduced fittings for a bomb as large as 500kg. It began production in May 1945. That was the heaviest weapons load for any Zeke. So, as suspected, no torpedo-Zekes.

I believe the Japanese also developed a jet-fighter, the ''Kikki-Jima'' or ''Cherry Blossom'' at about the same time, using turps as fuel and based on German designs, as an intended replacement for the Zero, is this right?

[Tiornu]

Any reference that confuses the Zeke with a torpedo plane is wrong enough to be laughed at. No one calls the Wildcat a divebomber, even though Saburo Sakai nearly died for his mistaking the two. If you found a book referring to the heavy cruiser Bismarck, what would you do?
The Kikka (Orange Blossom) had a top speed near 430 mph and a range less than half of a Zeke's. One prototype had flown before the surrender.

[marcelo_malara]

Hi all:

Anybody knows which planes the Luftwaffe managed to use as torpedo planes? How many ships did they take with them?

Thanks in advance

Regards to all

[Bgile]

IIRC the he111 and ju88 could, and I think also the fw190, but of course the range would then be a big problem.

[hellomartin]

Actually, it's a very good point. The Germans didn't seem to cotton on the way the British and then the Japanese did about the power of the torpedo attacks against capital ships.....then again, Hitler was never that interested in naval warfare....

[Ramius]

Didn't they have some floatplanes that were torpedo planes?

[Dave Saxton]

The ship based floatplanes (Arado 196) could carry a few bombs (50kg) or depth charges, but their main role was that of scouting, observation, over the horizion fall of shot direction...ect....

The Luftwaffe operated a long range flying boat, the B&V 138, mainly for ASW missions.

The primary workhorse marine torpedo bomber was the Ju88. He111's and D017's, ME410's ect... could also be used for torpedo attack. The long range four engine FW Condors could also perform torpedo attacks against convoys. The Fw190C replaced the Stuka as the primary tactical attack aircraft (Jabo) by 1943.

Luftflotte-5 was deployed to Artic waters in early 42. Luftflotte-5 was specially trained and equipped to perfom torpedo attacks vs shipping, and used for the most part the Ju88 for this purpose. Luftflotte-5 torpedo bombers destroyed most of Convoy PQ-17, after it was scattered through a fear of an attack by the Tirpitz on July-4-1942.

In late 1942 German marine patrol bombers and most marine attack aircraft were gradually equipped with the Lorenz Hohentwiel radar systems. This airborne version of the Lorenz radar could locate large ships to ranges of 150 km. It could be used to make highly accurate torpedo and bombing attacks vs shipping and warships. It made possible completely blind torpedo attacks on shipping in bad weather or at night, giving the Luftwaffe a lethal, and feared, torpedo attack capability. Additionally, the Hohentwiel could detect submarine periscopes to 6 km, making it a powerful ASW and submarine avoidance weapon.