Naval History Forums

RF wrote:

In that scenario Scharnhorst is again surprised by the arrival of DOY, but would have a better chance of escape by using its superior speed to outrun DOY, and sacrificing the German destroyers to prevent the Allied destroyers going after Scharnhorst.

In that rough sea I suppose the Allied destroyers could not match the speed of the Scharnhorst, so there would be no need to sacrifice the German destroyers.
And even if they would have matched that speed, the superior armament of the Scharnhorst (still intact) could have prevented any serious attack from nearby.

In essence if the German destroyers had been left with her, she would have an improved chance to avoid damage and escape, while risking the loss of 1 or even more destroyers (see the similar battle a year before when the Germans lost a destroyer when it took the British cruisers for German ships).

My impression is that the German DDs like rough weather even less than the British ones. I'm not at all sure that the historical record supports a lone BB being able to fend off attacks from numerous DDs.

lwd wrote:My impression is that the German DDs like rough weather even less than the British ones. I'm not at all sure that the historical record supports a lone BB being able to fend off attacks from numerous DDs.

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were unable to prevent even one destroyer from getting close enough to torpedo Scharnhorst. I think other destroyers are the best defense against destroyer attack.

But it is different weather the ships are closing or one is running from the other. Sea state also plays a role.

My comment was in regards to this:

VeenenbergR wrote:...And even if they would have matched that speed, the superior armament of the Scharnhorst (still intact) could have prevented any serious attack from nearby. ...

Difficult question!
How about the "Wasa"?
She had a certanly short career...

Agreed - I believe I mentioned this some months ago.....

HMS Defence (Armored Cruiser during WW1)

Talking of WW1 there was also the unfortunate demisr of SMS Karlsruhe in 1914.

What about HMS Dasher,
at anchor, most of the crew below decks getting changed for
shore leave and then she explodes and sinks.

HMS Defence (1907) had an unlucky career.

It failed to prevent the breakout of the Goeben and Breslau which is popularly blamed for the bringing of Turkey into the war in 1914.

Shortly thereafter, scheduled to join Admiral Cradock's fleet in the South Atlantic in the hunt for Von Spee's squadron it was reassigned, causing it to miss the battle of Coronel in which it could have made all the difference between victory and the crushing defeat.

Then at Jutland it was one of the cruisers that just blew up under fire and lost with the total loss of life of it's entire crew (903 people).

Not a very good record on the whole.

And making its name rather unfortunate.

I have 3 candidates.
HMS Curacoa, rammed and cut in two by the Queen Mary while escorting her.
WW1 HMS Audacious, sunk after hitting a mine in the open sea.
HMS Prince of Wales. Thumped by Bismarck and then sunk by Japanese planes, the first ever sunk that way!

HMS Vanguard (WW1)
IJNS Mutsu
RM Leonardo Da Vinci
HMS Natal

All suffered internal explosions and blew up.

Blucher proved to be a "cursed" name for Germany - losing 2 ships in both wars!

Gary:

HMS Vanguard (WW1)
IJNS Mutsu
RM Leonardo Da Vinci
HMS Natal

All suffered internal explosions and blew up.

An Iowa Class BB also suffered an internal explosion but it didn't blew up.