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Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:59 am
by ekwall
Sorry if this has been done before.
What happens if Britain offers a conditional surrender/sues for peace after Dunkerque?
There was a (crazy) thread asking if the USA's contribution to WW2 was necessary. I think we all agree it was! No question.
But, all hypothetical obviously, what would have happened in 1940? Forced British withdrawal from North Africa, Persia, Mediterranean, India
All RN capital ships interned somewhere or scuttled like Scapa Flow 1919.
Germany and it's allies are much stronger. Franco joins in.
Japanese still attack America. Germany has air and submarine bases in Iceland and Ireland

Just wondering what people think.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:36 pm
by Dave Saxton
Hitler was always looking east. Now with his hubris unchecked he strikes east. Perhaps he prevails. A new Dark Ages commences.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:10 pm
by Byron Angel
From what I have read, Hitler held a certain esteem for the British and was willing to settle a "soft" peace upon them. If so, one might speculate that he might impose upon the British government to keep the USA out of the war in Europe. If successful, what happens then? Does the USA advance its war plans with respect to subduing Japan?

It is a provocative and intriguing thought experiment.

Byron

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:25 am
by OpanaPointer
The American public thought the Japanese were direct threats to the US based on their alliance with Germany. If Hitler were neutral in the Pacific Americans may have thought Japan less of a threat.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:28 pm
by paul.mercer
Gentlemen,
A interesting question indeed and i'm not sure of the answer.
To force a peace settlement both the air force ad the navy would have to have been subdued and the threat of invasion very real. I don't think that Hitlers Generals (the good ones at least!) were ever very keen on the idea due to the complexities of crossing the channel with what were basically converted river barges - after all it was difficult enough with the weather in 1944 with the proper equipment and escorts, let alone what the rest of the RN could do to the invasion fleet.
However if GB did submit I would think that before actually doing so all the main RN ships and much of the remaining equipment and the Royal family would have gone to Canada and the fight would continue from there. A tough decision, but probably the only one available. Although it was a tragedy, In many ways it was very lucky for us that Pearl Harbour happened when it did and brought the US into the war otherwise it may well have happened.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:43 am
by marcelo_malara
My opinion, no belligerent surrendered in WWII unless its country was totally overrun but the enemy´s armies. UK had no reason to surrender. In the event that the u-boat offensive had more drastic results than it actually had, and UK was totally cut of external help, and USA didn´t come to their help, still it would require a German invasion to do the trick.

Regards

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:05 am
by OpanaPointer
France wasn't totally overrun.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:09 pm
by marcelo_malara
True, you may say "almost overrun".

Regards

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:43 pm
by OpanaPointer

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:09 am
by marcelo_malara
Thanks, looks like taken from one of the West Point military atlas.

Regards

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:07 am
by RF
I think the salient factor with these ''what ifs'' is that in 1945 the USA develops the atom bomb. The remaining question is against which enemy it is deployed against first.

I would suggest that the world, going forward to 2019, would be very similar to what we have in reality, with the USA as sole global superpower.

Re: Britain Sues for Peace 1940.

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:20 pm
by OpanaPointer
RF wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:07 am
I think the salient factor with these ''what ifs'' is that in 1945 the USA develops the atom bomb. The remaining question is against which enemy it is deployed against first.
Germany was the first target planned. The NSA bomb docs make that clear. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/index.htm