11 December 1941

[RF]

Today marks the 69th anniversary of Hitlers' final and irreversable military blunder - his declaration of war on the USA, which came at the end of a wee that finally decided the outcome of WW2.

[Karl Heidenreich]

WW2 was decided when Hitler invaded Russia. Germany could have fought the US alone anytime if not fighting the soviets, but not the two of them (plus Great Britain) at the same time. Of course it was a blunder, the third biggest: first is Russia, the second not defeating Britain by 1940-41.

[RF]

WW2 was decided when Hitler invaded Russia.

Not necessarily. Barbarossa could have succeeded had the plan by Marcks been stuck to, instead of Hitler mucking things up.

[RF]

Germany could have fought the US alone anytime

How?

The mainland and interior of the USA was totally beyond the reach of Germany.

[lwd]

WW2 was decided when Hitler invaded Russia.

Not necessarily. Barbarossa could have succeeded had the plan by Marcks been stuck to, instead of Hitler mucking things up.

Most of the times I've seen this argued the general conclusion is that the German logistics plan was simply inadequate. A large part of this was that they didn't expect the Soviets to be able to quickly raise the number of troops they did after the sort of losses that were inflicted.

Germany could have fought the US alone anytime

How?
The mainland and interior of the USA was totally beyond the reach of Germany.

Well at the risk of delving into semantics again. He did say fight not win. Indeed Germany would have had a difficult time taking Great Britain out and she was much closer and smaller and more dependent on supply lines that could be readily attacked. Of course if he meant that they could defeat the US that's even harder than the US defeating them. I'd see a conflict exclusivly between Germany and the US in the 40's as bearing a fair resembalance to the quasi war with France in the early 1800's.

[RF]

WW2 was decided when Hitler invaded Russia.

Not necessarily. Barbarossa could have succeeded had the plan by Marcks been stuck to, instead of Hitler mucking things up.

Most of the times I've seen this argued the general conclusion is that the German logistics plan was simply inadequate. A large part of this was that they didn't expect the Soviets to be able to quickly raise the number of troops they did after the sort of losses that were inflicted.

The German supply logistics was inadequate BUT had Hitler concentrated on the one objective of Moscow in August 1941 instead of diverting forces into the Ukraine, the seizure of Moscow as the hub of the Soviet railway system would have made the December 1941 counter attack much more difficult to prepare. Early capture of Moscow without the prospect of a counterstroke could have toppled Stalin altogether.

[RF]

Well at the risk of delving into semantics again. He did say fight not win. Indeed Germany would have had a difficult time taking Great Britain out and she was much closer and smaller and more dependent on supply lines that could be readily attacked. Of course if he meant that they could defeat the US that's even harder than the US defeating them. I'd see a conflict exclusivly between Germany and the US in the 40's as bearing a fair resembalance to the quasi war with France in the early 1800's.

Germany would need allies with substantial navies and also bases close to the US mainland in order to prosecute a serious war against the US.
In other threads I have suggested scenarios where this could have happened, involving Japan and Mexico, where either Britain was already defeated or in alliance with the Germans.
Failing that, a war between just Germany and the US on 1939 terms would be so remote that they would hardly get to grips with each other.