Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Non-naval discussions about the Second World War. Military leaders, campaigns, weapons, etc.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

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alecsandros
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by alecsandros »

Thre is also one new documentary on Dicovery World about Wittman and his death. Very interesting, as it brings several experts into the game.
They credit him with 12 destroyed tanks at Villers-Bocage.

Brilliant tank commander. The stuff of legends
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RF
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by RF »

It does pose the question as to how Wittmann would have performed in the North African campaign under Rommel, although of course he would not be operating with Tigers.
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by mkenny »

alecsandros wrote:Thre is also one new documentary on Dicovery World about Wittman and his death. Very interesting, as it brings several experts into the game.
They credit him with 12 destroyed tanks at Villers-Bocage.

Why wait for a TV show to tell you something I established years ago?

I first said it online in 2002


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 844#p26844

"As for his tally of tanks that day, 4 RHQ Cromwells, 1 OP Sherman, 3 Stuarts, 1 Cromwell in Villers for sure.
It then depends on where he joined the N175 for his final total. As A Squadron lost 4 Fireflys it is said Wittmann hit one of them and an unknown number of Cromwells on his way down to the Stuarts. But the bulk of A Squadron was at point 213 and photos show that some of these tanks on the road were abandoned intact(Dunlops RHA tank was set on fire later)It cant have been more than 3 or 4".


And here just a few months back:


viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1956&p=28398#p28398

"The absolute maximum number of tanks that Wittmann could possibly have knocked out was 11-12".

It was hard work but worth it to end the myth of 25 tanks destroyed by Wittmann.

If you are in the market for more original research then I can inform you that apart from the 8 tanks that Wittmann is known to have engaged there is only 1 more in a position where he says he engaged 2. It looks like the total now can only be 9!
alecsandros
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by alecsandros »

So you can't make a simple distinction...
Between "They credit him with 12 destroyed tanks at Villers-Bocage" and "I think... bla bla".
There's a big difference, kid. Learn it.
And stop flaming the forum.

And, if you are so much of a demonstrator, and myth busting overlord, why do you waste your precious wisdom on random internet forums instead of focusing on writing a book?
mkenny
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by mkenny »

alecsandros wrote:So you can't make a simple distinction...
Between "They credit him with 12 destroyed tanks at Villers-Bocage" and "I think... bla bla".
There's a big difference, kid. Learn it.
No difference at all. I know for a fact. Have known it for years.
Still working on the 3 tanks Wittmann says he destroyed on the RN 175 and as I told you earlier 2 of them do not seem to exist.
9 destroyed tanks it is, not 12.
Watch out for the 'experts' catching up in about 8 years time.

Here again is what I revealed in 2002(8 years ago)

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 844#p26844

"As for his tally of tanks that day, 4 RHQ Cromwells, 1 OP Sherman, 3 Stuarts, 1 Cromwell in Villers for sure.
It then depends on where he joined the N175 for his final total. As A Squadron lost 4 Fireflys it is said Wittmann hit one of them and an unknown number of Cromwells on his way down to the Stuarts. But the bulk of A Squadron was at point 213 and photos show that some of these tanks on the road were abandoned intact(Dunlops RHA tank was set on fire later)It cant have been more than 3 or 4".


alecsandros wrote:if you are so much of a demonstrator, and myth busting overlord, why do you waste your precious wisdom on random internet forums instead of focusing on writing a book?
What? you are complaining I give you my results for free instead of charging you money for it?

I let others publish my work:


The artwork shown here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... 1O+Chelsea

Is taken from the info I gave here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... +Normandie
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by Bgile »

Just because you don't agree with a person, that doesn't make his posts spam.
alecsandros
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by alecsandros »

Bgile wrote:Just because you don't agree with a person, that doesn't make his posts spam.
If it quacks like a duck, moves like a duck, flies like a duck... It's a duck.
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by mkenny »

That would be 25 ducks downgraded to 12 ducks when in actual fact it was only 9 ducks!.
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by lwd »

alecsandros wrote:So you can't make a simple distinction...
Between "They credit him with 12 destroyed tanks at Villers-Bocage" and "I think... bla bla".
There's a big difference, kid. Learn it.
??? why this response? He's posted info that he can suport and you post insutls?
And stop flaming the forum. ...
Where has he "flamed the forum"? At times his post may be a bit "insensitive" but he usually has pretty hard data to back them up.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

mkenny:

with all due respect I didn't post the videos for you to come and comment on them. The total of tanks destroyed at Viller Bocage, being 9 or 12 or 25 only tells you that we have a confirmation on the 5 to 1 overall of Tigers vs. Allied tanks. Having said that I don't think there is nothing else to share with you.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by Karl Heidenreich »

Alecsandros:

Please, check these two links which are more than very clear:

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm

http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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mkenny
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by mkenny »

Karl Heidenreich wrote: The total of tanks destroyed at Viller Bocage, being 9 or 12 or 25 only tells you that we have a confirmation on the 5 to 1 overall of Tigers vs. Allied tanks. .
25 British tanks lost and at least 6 Tigers (see Schneider) might give you 4:1 but that means you ignore the Pz IV's lost.
They knock it down to 2:1
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by lwd »

And if you want to state it in tons I suspect the ratio is even lower. Comic books aside putting several Stuarts up against a Tiger is normally going to result in several lost Stuarts.
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Re: Michael Wittman and Tiger tanks

Post by mkenny »

lwd wrote:And if you want to state it in tons I suspect the ratio is even lower. Comic books aside putting several Stuarts up against a Tiger is normally going to result in several lost Stuarts.
3 Stuarts and 3 Artillery OP tanks among the 25 British tanks lost.
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