Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Non-naval discussions about the Second World War. Military leaders, campaigns, weapons, etc.
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marcelo_malara
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Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by marcelo_malara »

I have ever wondered why scoped rifles were never released massively to the infantry, until recently that some assault rifles (the British IW and the Austriac AUG for example) have low power sights. I know that most casualties in the batllefield are from machine guns and artillery, but wouldn´t scoped infantry alter that by increasing the precision of the shooting? Is it entirely a matter of cost (which would be highly arguably anyway)? Was it ever tried?

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Bgile
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by Bgile »

I believe all current US M-4 carbines have scopes, and that is currently the standard US combat rifle. You don't get sniper capability, but it helps.
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marcelo_malara
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by marcelo_malara »

Sure, the intention wouldn´t be to shoot farther, but with higher precision.
lwd
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by lwd »

I suspect in WWII it comes down to a number of factors:

1) Scope quality/utility. Target acquisiton was likely slower with WWII era scopes. Situational awareness would also be compromised to some extent. Modern combat scopes often have significantly wider fields of view and in many cases thermals.

2) Production capability. No one was really geared up to produce scopes in the quantities necessary. Some years ago for instance the death of one Black Widow spider put a significant crimp in the produciton of scopes by one of the major US manufacturers.

3) Cost.
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RF
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by RF »

I had always thought of scopes being used specifically for sniping, particulary used in urban and close quarters terrain. Would I be right that using scopes gives the rifleman a degree of tunnel vision by restricting the overall viewing field to a target only so that he is blind to the rest of the situation around him?
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lwd
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by lwd »

They can. Modern scopes often have wider fields of view. In particular the ones available for most soldeirs in the US amry I believe are pretty low magnification and so can have fairly wide fields of view. Furthermore if you are trained to shoot with both eyes open you can keep some sitiuational awareness but I'm not sure how well this works with high power scopes.
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by Bgile »

I'm pretty sure they are low power and just help the soldier to align his sights properly.
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by lwd »

An article related to current US pracitce in this regard:
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/article ... 4-2009.asp
Most U.S. combat troops have been carrying primary optics (scopes) on their weapons for well over 10 years.
and :
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/article ... 5-2009.asp
madmike
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by madmike »

If i may comment on this from a ex-Infantry/sniper point of view, You each make good points, My very humble opinion is 1. Yes most standard infantry rifles today are fitted with LOW powered scopes for the reasons you give (most standard issue rifles are NOT fitted with thermal sights), 2.YES (RF/lwd) even with todays wider viewing scopes a soldier does have a small amount of tunnel vision, lwd point of learning to shot with both eyes open negates most of the effect. And with the more powerful scopes, they are nearly all used in the sniping role, The tunnel vision effect is MUCH greater (also your concentration is on a given target) and thats one of the main reasons, Nearly all armies today operate their snipers in two man teams (shooter/spotter), RF the use of snipers is mostly in open and urban terrain, in close terrain (heavy jungle) a snipers effectiveness is somewhat less, HIS effect on morale is one of his greatest assets, A sniper is more a mental weapon than a physical weapon, Snipers can slowly and steadily over time near destroy the moral of almost any unit.(NO ONE LIKES TO THINK THEIR BEING HUNTED LIKE A TROPHY ANIMAL). RF the US marines and Canada and Australia have gone over to the 50 cal as their primary sniper rifle, just a little big and heavy to haul around the jungle, Its strength is in both it's range and awesome hitting power, I personally think it would be more of a handicap in the jungle than a help.
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by Bgile »

Madmike,

Thanks; it's always good to get info from someone who has been there.
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neil hilton
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Re: Scoped rifles for every infantryman

Post by neil hilton »

From my own experience firing the L1a1 without a scope and the L85a1 with a scope. A standard susat low mag scope is very good at medium battlefield ranges over 100m or so but they are a hindrance to shooting at short ranges such as inside buildings or even firing across the street in urban settings because you can no longer use the iron sights it does throw off basic precision.
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