Naval History Forums

They are to be built under supervision of the French Company as techinical advisors. So at least there will be a few jobs for the French

Apparently the Baltic states are getting a bit upset about fellow NATO member France selling the Russia's an Assault Carrier.

I don't really see the big deal, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all now NATO members and NATO would never allow them to be invaded while they are members of NATO. I think they just need to get over some of their Cold War fears.

I don't really see the big deal, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are all now NATO members and NATO would never allow them to be invaded while they are members of NATO. I think they just need to get over some of their Cold War fears.

That´s is if the US back up NATO against, let´s say, Russia wanting to play the schoolyard bully against the Baltic states or Poland. I really can´t see "democractic" Germany and "proud" France fighting the Minsk boy scouts in a Chechen like enviroment.

This is precisely it isn't it? Would NATO back the Baltic states, particulary if already fully stretched with military commitments eleswhere, and in doing so having to keep Russia on side - with a few political concessions.... Its not outright invasion they have to fear, but annexation by stealth....

So the Ruskie's don't want to even build the Mistral's anymore, their wanting to just buy 4 ships now from the French.
This will definately put the French in a bind. Build the ships, thus providing much needed jobs for French citizens or
don't build them to make NATO members happy. This should be interesting.

Kyler wrote:So the Ruskie's don't want to even build the Mistral's anymore, their wanting to just buy 4 ships now from the French.
This will definately put the French in a bind. Build the ships, thus providing much needed jobs for French citizens or
don't build them to make NATO members happy. This should be interesting.

Why would this be a problem for them? They didn't have a problem selling military equipment to Saddam Hussein while allies were trying to enforce an embargo. I really think money trumps all else there.

The Russians seem to be having trouble keeping anything they have at sea or even keeping them in shape to go to sea. I'm not sure adding more large complex ships is going to help. If I were the French I want to get my money in advance though....

I'm sure that the French have done their homework and will be obtaining payment up front.

As for keeping the ships fully operational - well if the Russians can't then they won't be much of a threat to anyboy......

In an article in yesterdays Ares Defense Blog, the Admiral in charge of the Russian Navy has asked for 4, but that is not official yet. Thus the current French understanding is 2 unarmed versions will be built in France, the other two in Russia if the politics are right.

The Russian Navy has been saying for a few years, unless they start rebuilding ships soon, they will dramtacially lose much of their naval manfacturing ability. Not that their ability hasn't been severly hit since the end of the Cold War. I believe the Russians have only finished 2 large surface ships in the last decade. In addition lwd & RF, you are both right they can't keep anything operational either.

From what you say in your last paragraph Kyler it basically looks as if Russia is no longer going to be a major naval power in its own right, marking the end effectively of the Brezhnev Doctrine along with the rest of the communist era.

RF wrote:From what you say in your last paragraph Kyler it basically looks as if Russia is no longer going to be a major naval power in its own right, marking the end effectively of the Brezhnev Doctrine along with the rest of the communist era.

You are probably right, Russian will no longer be able to be a big blue water navy, unless dramatic funding increases happen in the next few years. Currently I believe this unlikely since Russia is spending much of its needed defense development budgets on getting their nuclear triad updated & modernized. Though as seen with the Bulava SLBM that the loss of quality labor and scientific skill has dramatically affected Russia ability to modernized it's nuclear & military forces. I think in this current climate the Moscow is hoping to modernize it's naval strike force with updating Tu-22M3's and the purchase of Su-34's to provide a longrange anti-shipping threat from their coastal naval bases. Though I think this strategy has a number of large holes through it.

My love for the French go wild every passing day...

They sell warships to the ruskies who, on the other hand, are trying to re start making power projection. Guess where they will go once operational: Venezuela under madman Chavez, who wants, also, to project power in South and Central America... where my kids and family lives. I knew what war with the commies was in the 80ies and surely don' t want it during the lifespan of my growing children.

Long live Wellington' s and Guderian's memory forever....

Will the Russians get there and stay there in any strength?

Venezuela is strategically important and even Obama would be mindful of the Monro Doctrine.....

RF:

Will the Russians get there and stay there in any strength?

Could be. Remember that the anti US sentiment in Latin America is big and the Caribbean is important for the US as it is a backdoor. A "bridge" between Cuba and Venezuela is important for any potential contender of US power. Also, there is natural gas and oil there which rises the importance. And if madman Chavez offers free port and security to ruskie vessels then it' s a good oportunity.

Venezuela is strategically important and even Obama would be mindful of the Monro Doctrine.....

You think that Obama has a strategic thinking which is mistaken, obviously. He only says what the teleprompter shows and the guys behind the teleprompter are socialist bleeding hearts. They will never react upon such a threat, like Chamberlain they will "dialogue" whilst ignoring the Maquiavelian quote: "never let disorder to be born in the name of peace, because war is never avoided, only delayed against your own best interests."

Russia will not be able to sustain military expansion policies overseas. They can barely fund their navy as it is. Their strategic bomber fleet needs a major overhaul and some airframes replaced outright. The Mistral's are too intimidate some of Russia's neighbors. Sure they'll look fancy enough pulling to harbors around the world, but without a good fleet to support them for overseas missions their just big white elephants.

From what I am hearing hear in the States, Chavez seems to be in trouble, his current policies seem to have hit a brick wall. He's gone air blaming everyone else including some of his own ministers for his failed policies. He fancies himself the next Simon Bolivar, but in reality he's just a thug that has the support of people who really don't know any better. In addition, until he can get some other country to start refining all his oil, he'll just keep saber rattling. The dirty oil pumped from his country can only be refined in 8 refineries in the world currently 7 of those are in the US, the other is in China. Though China is building another that is still some years away. I wouldn't be shocked if one day I woke up, and found out he had been assassinated .