Ranking European best navies today

[Alatriste]

How would you rank today's European navies?

For the main contenders my rank is:

1. British Royal Navy
2. French Navy
3. Spanish Navy
4. Italian Navy
5. German Navy

[Karl Heidenreich]

The Vatican´s high seas fleet...

[softsea]

The Vatican´s high seas fleet...

They are certainly able to pull the strings "over seas" without having a fleet...
and they are always battling for power and influence, as the recent visit of the pope to Brazil shows.

João Rodrigues

[Laurenz]

Of course, the pope is Germany's most powerful ship :-)

Beside such a weapon its the British fleet which is still the best in my view.
But in our days i think it is more dangerous to be a sailor in waraction.
The Sheffield during the Falklands showed how limited the possebilities are.
A simple excocet is needed to sink a ship.

From the German navy i know that the frigates are ok, the new Brennstoffzellen U-Boats (only Isreal and germany owns) are very dangerous and the Divers are fine.

Kind regards,
L.

[Karl Heidenreich]

Let´s leave religion outside this forum, I´m sorry I make that joke.

Kind regards

[iankw]

Sheffield wasn't using her radar at the time though Laurenz. I believe that, for some reason, she was being used to send traffic back to the UK and couldn't use her tracking radar. I may be wrong about this as it is 20 years ago and I have only my memory to rely on. It has recently come out though that she was warned by another ship (Glasgow or Glamorgan?), who did track the missile. As a result counter measures were too late. It's interesting to note that the missile didn't actually explode, apparently. The rocket motor itself was enough to cause a fire, which couldn't be fought properly because of poor damage control practices.

Ian

[RF]

The Vatican´s high seas fleet...

You are beginning to sound like Stalin - ''how many divisions has the Pope?''

[RF]

It's interesting to note that the missile didn't actually explode, apparently. The rocket motor itself was enough to cause a fire, which couldn't be fought properly because of poor damage control practices.

Ian

This has a very familiar ring to it - remember the loss of the Blucher in 1940, after it was set on fire by a dud shell.....

[RF]

How would you rank today's European navies?

For the main contenders my rank is:

1. British Royal Navy
2. French Navy
3. Spanish Navy
4. Italian Navy
5. German Navy

Alastride,

I notice that you have not mentioned the Russian Navy, the Russians having the largest country and navy in Europe.

Also worthy of mention is the Dutch Navy, which has a long tradition.

The problem with a question like this is that there is no real combat record for which to compare them with - NATO excercises don't give much scope for comparison either.

So - the question as I see it has to be considered another way. Such as how would the French or Spanish or Italian or German navies have individually tackled say the Falklands campaign in 1982 in place of the British? Would they have succeeded? Would they have succeeded more quickly? What sort of losses/casualties would they take?

[Ulrich Rudofsky]

It is of interest that the Vatican did have a navy at times. Don't forget that Popes had great influence/control over the navies in Genoa and Venice, at one time the most powerful navies, sine qua non. Andrea Doria was under the Pope! The Pontifical Navy was apparently described by Guglielmotti's enthusiasm was for naval history and he produced a 10-volume History of the Pontifical Navy. http://www.domcentral.org/study/ashley/ ... hdom08.htm

Thanks for bringing up an interesting subject......

[RF]

As a rather faceous joke, would the sinking of the Pontifical Navy be seen as a Act of God?!?!?

[Ulrich Rudofsky]

the sinking of the Pontifical Navy be seen as a Act of God?!?!?

Perhaps by Anglicans?

[RF]

the sinking of the Pontifical Navy be seen as a Act of God?!?!?

Perhaps by Anglicans? :lol:

Actually I was thinking of the English King Henry VIII....

[Alatriste]

Alastride,

I notice that you have not mentioned the Russian Navy, the Russians having the largest country and navy in Europe.

Also worthy of mention is the Dutch Navy, which has a long tradition.

The problem with a question like this is that there is no real combat record for which to compare them with - NATO excercises don't give much scope for comparison either.

So - the question as I see it has to be considered another way. Such as how would the French or Spanish or Italian or German navies have individually tackled say the Falklands campaign in 1982 in place of the British? Would they have succeeded? Would they have succeeded more quickly? What sort of losses/casualties would they take?

Yes I forgot about the Russians.
When I talk about ranking the best navies I am thinking of the number of ships and level of technology. Because there is no real combat record to compare there as you said we can only speculate.

When you ask how would the French or Spanish or Italian or German navies have individually tackled the Falklands campaign in 1982 in place of the British, are you thinking of the navies these countries had in 1982 or the navies they have today? I ask because in the last 25 years technology has improved a lot.

[RF]

It would have to be the forces available in 1982.

Otherwise it would be like speculating about say the Battle of Jutland with todays Federal German Navy vs. the British Grand Fleet of 1916, or the Battle of Tushima Strait between say the Soviet Navy under Brezhnev and that of Togo - not really fair or proper comparison.