Building new RN ships

[paul.mercer]

Gentlemen, For arguments sake let us assume that the British Government having signed up to the 'Washington Treaty' and instructed its naval architects to design five new battleships to comply with the regulations of that 'Treaty'.However, before they do so an anti Hitler official in the Kreigsmarine design department steals the plans for building heavy ships and passed it to the British navy.
These plans showed German plans for building heavy battleships with 15" guns, battlecruisers' with either 9 x 11" or 6 x15", and pocket battleships each with 6 x 11" together with the options to built even bigger and more heavily armed battleships and an aircraft carrier- all way over the size agreed by the Washington Treaty and beyond what was authorized after the end of WW1.
So this is the question, if you were the British prime Minister, what would you do? Would you continue with the design of the KGV class or scrap the idea and build even bigger and more powerful ships and if so, what design would you use in the way of overall size, weight, armour and armament, bearing in mind the possible threat of even more powerful ships coming out from Germany and quite probably other Nations as well? In order to counter the immediate threat of the two German battleships and Battlecruisers would you build larger, faster and better armoured versions of the QE's still with 15" guns, or another uprated and much faster version of the 'Nelsons' still with 9 x 16" weapons but laid out in a more conventional style of two turrets fore and a single turret aft? At the same time, given the size of the proposed German heavy cruisers like PE, would you also go for improving uprating and increasing the size of the British ones?
The possibilities are endless, over to you Gentlemen!

[HMSVF]

Dockyard capacity is going to be the limiter here as much as money!

In an ideal world Hood and Repulse get the same reconstruction as HMS Renown.


In regards to the KGV's?? Here is a leftfield suggestion! Strip the "R"s of turrets and scrap them (keep armored plate if possible).


Recondition the turrets and place on the KGV'S. The 15 inch was competitive enough if not cutting edge.


Get the DoC to design a ship that can take the original 3x4 turreted KGV or go one better and have two or three, 4 x 4 gunned vessels (armored against 15 inch shell fire) and one or two armed with the remaining 2 gunned turrets (3x2) (again to deal with PB's or slightly larger).

With 100% retroscopic hindsight do everything to get the Illustrious class completed sooner, forget the Indefatigable class and go for the Colossus class earlier. Modernise/refit Glorious and Courageous,dont send them off on crazy missions chasing submarines or for court martials.


In an ideal, ideal world I would restart the G3's in the late 20's and have the KGV's armed with 9 x 16,lie about how thick the armor was ,how many shells they carried and how much range they had etc.

That relies on Hitler being in control far earlier than historical which might save the armaments industry from going bust with the subsequent loss of capacity. So by 1936 the bottlenecks present for turrets,guns and armoured plate is not so pronounced.
It would also make it easier to refit HMS Tiger (which would be more than enough for any PB).


So just need Hitler in charge earlier,
No London Treaty,
Enough money,
Enough capacity,
Willingness to "be lenient with the truth".
No Invergordon Mutiny (no point in having ships if you can't man them due to abysmal pay),
Enough draftsman to design hulls for the above!



Easy! LOL




Best wishes HMSVF

[paul.mercer]

Dockyard capacity is going to be the limiter here as much as money!

In an ideal world Hood and Repulse get the same reconstruction as HMS Renown.


In regards to the KGV's?? Here is a leftfield suggestion! Strip the "R"s of turrets and scrap them (keep armored plate if possible).


Recondition the turrets and place on the KGV'S. The 15 inch was competitive enough if not cutting edge.


Get the DoC to design a ship that can take the original 3x4 turreted KGV or go one better and have two or three, 4 x 4 gunned vessels (armored against 15 inch shell fire) and one or two armed with the remaining 2 gunned turrets (3x2) (again to deal with PB's or slightly larger).

With 100% retroscopic hindsight do everything to get the Illustrious class completed sooner, forget the Indefatigable class and go for the Colossus class earlier. Modernise/refit Glorious and Courageous,dont send them off on crazy missions chasing submarines or for court martials.


In an ideal, ideal world I would restart the G3's in the late 20's and have the KGV's armed with 9 x 16,lie about how thick the armor was ,how many shells they carried and how much range they had etc.

That relies on Hitler being in control far earlier than historical which might save the armaments industry from going bust with the subsequent loss of capacity. So by 1936 the bottlenecks present for turrets,guns and armoured plate is not so pronounced.
It would also make it easier to refit HMS Tiger (which would be more than enough for any PB).


So just need Hitler in charge earlier,
No London Treaty,
Enough money,
Enough capacity,
Willingness to "be lenient with the truth".
No Invergordon Mutiny (no point in having ships if you can't man them due to abysmal pay),
Enough draftsman to design hulls for the above!

Easy! LOL
Best wishes HMSVF

Thanks for that, I was assuming that as five new battleships for the RN had been authorized that the money, capacity and draftsmen were already there and that the good old 'British stiff upper lip' attitude , 'we stick by the rules' was waived under the circumstances that I described. looking up the 'Washington Treaty' on wikapedia it seems that as soon as a war was in the offing,both France and Italy built battleships over the limit.
From what I gather from reading about it the treaty, it limited capital ships to 35000 tons and 16" guns -I know nothing about ship design but I would have thought that 35000 tons was a bit light fora 16" gunned ship bearing in mind the amount of armour she would need to fight a simmerly armed opponent.
I would think that a 9x 16" or even 12 x16" heavily armoured ship would have been the answer to start with, as to build ones with 8x15" would only put it on par with Bismarck and Tirpitz which might not be enough - as i suggested, perhaps a faster and better armoured version of the 'Nelsons, with a conventional turret lay out (or perhaps four 3 gun turrets ) might be the answer