PE v Graf Spee

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paul.mercer
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PE v Graf Spee

Post by paul.mercer » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:33 am

Gentlemen,
Forgive me if we have discussed this before but I could not find it if we have.
What would be the outcome if Prince Eugen went up against admiral Graf Spee?
PE was longer and heavier(almost 19000 tons full load and 212 m long and carried 8x8" guns, whereas Graf Spee was about 16000 tons and 186m long and carried 6 X 11" guns. Given both had good captains, who would win in a one to one battle?

Thorsten Wahl
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by Thorsten Wahl » Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:46 am

rough comparison Weights
...............................AGS................................Prinz Eugen
Hull..........................4000...............................5500
Armor........................2800...............................2400
Machinery(M1+M2(aux))..1700+700(132000WPS)..........2300+1000(56000WPS) ---->Konstruktionsleistung
Artillery.....................2000................................1900

Vmax........................28 kn...............................>32kn

according Akte Konstruktionsdaten deutscher Kriegsschiffe

optimal battledistances (Unterlagen zur Bestimmung der Hauptkampfentfernung)
AGS 18 - 25 km versus heavy cruisers
Prinz Eugen <18 km versus heavy cruisers (including severe danger for own protection)

expected hits at 20 km
AGS one per minute (ROF 2,5 per minute and gun)
Prinz Eugen 3 per minute (ROF 4 per minute and gun)
(if MPI is on target)
Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!

Steve Crandell
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by Steve Crandell » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:20 pm

The closest actual battle comparison we have is Exeter vs Graf Spee, and It's an open question, I think. Exeter was very badly beaten up, but did some significant damage to AGS.

paul.mercer
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by paul.mercer » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:47 pm

Thanks Thorsten and Steve,
It seems that it was mainly the 8" shells from Exeter that damaged Graf Spee but did not Exeter only have 6 x 8*" as opposed to PE 8 x 8" which surely would have made a difference, also was not PE also much larger and heavily armoured than Exeter, even more so than an 8 X 8"cruiser like Cumberland? It would have been an interesting confrontation and i suppose it would all depend on who started hitting first - a rain of lighter shells from PE or fewer but heavier hitting ones from Graf Spee!

Steve Crandell
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by Steve Crandell » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm

One factor with armor comparison is that PE's armor would be essentially useless against direct hits from AGS and the reverse wouldn't be true.

Any yes, PE obviously had more, faster firing and probably more accurate gun/fire control than Exeter.

paul.mercer
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by paul.mercer » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:05 am

Hi Steve,
Thanks for that.
I think my money would be on Graf Spee, although she would probably be heavily damaged in the exchange.

Steve Crandell
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by Steve Crandell » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:04 pm

Paul,

Yes, that's what I would think as well.

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RF
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Re: PE v Graf Spee

Post by RF » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:53 am

I also concur.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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