Lutzow vs. US heavy cruiser
Lutzow vs. US heavy cruiser
How would the panzerschiff fire power compare with the WW2 US heavy cruisers? In a one on one meeting would the 8 inch armament of US ships be expected to do better than say a British County Class cruiser?
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- Karl Heidenreich
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The Americans can easily penetrate Lützow´s armour, so it´s just about who scores the first decisive hits. The 11inch shells are far more destructive but she will get more hits in return.
With radar FC I´d put my money on the American cruiser otherwise its pretty even. The range advantage of the German guns won´t help much, since it´s very unlikely, that hits will occur past 30k Yards.
With radar FC I´d put my money on the American cruiser otherwise its pretty even. The range advantage of the German guns won´t help much, since it´s very unlikely, that hits will occur past 30k Yards.
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Lutscha:
As a matter of fact only a small proportion of engagements had happened at someone´s extreme range. The radar FC would not be of any help if the Germans could achieve early hits, which is something they usually did as in RP or DS. (As I recall it´s in North Cape where the Germans didn´t scored a single hit against the DoY).
That´s not what happened at River Plate. The German "pockett BB" did hit heavily the British ships, not being the contenders at extreme range.The Americans can easily penetrate Lützow´s armour, so it´s just about who scores the first decisive hits. The 11inch shells are far more destructive but she will get more hits in return.
With radar FC I´d put my money on the American cruiser otherwise its pretty even. The range advantage of the German guns won´t help much, since it´s very unlikely, that hits will occur past 30k Yards.
As a matter of fact only a small proportion of engagements had happened at someone´s extreme range. The radar FC would not be of any help if the Germans could achieve early hits, which is something they usually did as in RP or DS. (As I recall it´s in North Cape where the Germans didn´t scored a single hit against the DoY).
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- Karl Heidenreich
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Lutscha:
At what range? How can we be so sure that the cruisers will hit first?Radar (Mk 8 onwards) ensures that the Americans are more likely to hit first. I don´t know about German first salvo hits/straddles but the Americans had both.
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US CAs had 335 lb AP shells capable of penetrating AGSs armor, so they would be very dangerous to her. On the other hand, if you are talking about contemporary US cruisers prior to the Baltimore class, their fire control probably wasn’t much better than Exeters although 9 guns vs 6 would certainly help.
I would still give AGS the advantage because of her heavier guns.
I would still give AGS the advantage because of her heavier guns.
Don't forget that at the River Plate battle Exeter only scored two 8 inch shell hits. These two hits did a substantial part of the internal damage to Spee. According to Rasenack one of these two hits narrowly avoided penetrating the armour plating right into Spee's engine rooms, a hit he says ''would have been disastrous.''Karl Heidenreich wrote:
That´s not what happened at River Plate. The German "pockett BB" did hit heavily the British ships, not being the contenders at extreme range.
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I don't think this is true. Didn't Langsdorf shift fire to the two CLs because they were closing in and pelting him with 6" fire? IIRC the decision to go to Montevideo was made somewhat later.Karl Heidenreich wrote:RF, you´re right but Exeter was more damaged than GS at RP. The only reason Exeter didn´t sunk was (again the Lutjens Syndrome) Langsdorf´s order to disengage and go to Montevideo.
Bgile is right, Ajax and Achilles attacked like destroyers. It was about this time that Langsdorf was knocked out and slightly wounded, this is where the Germans lost the initiative and lost the battle.Bgile wrote:I don't think this is true. Didn't Langsdorf shift fire to the two CLs because they were closing in and pelting him with 6" fire? IIRC the decision to go to Montevideo was made somewhat later.Karl Heidenreich wrote:RF, you´re right but Exeter was more damaged than GS at RP. The only reason Exeter didn´t sunk was (again the Lutjens Syndrome) Langsdorf´s order to disengage and go to Montevideo.
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RF:
That´s not the point. The point is about Langsdorf´s failure to achieve victory when he had the chance (and indeed he had it at hand). Of course he lost the battle when he was winning: Exeter was his challenge, once out of the combat GS could handle the other two cruisers with her superior armament, even if he decides to disengage.Bgile is right, Ajax and Achilles attacked like destroyers. It was about this time that Langsdorf was knocked out and slightly wounded, this is where the Germans lost the initiative and lost the battle.
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He didn't have the chance to sink Exeter. It would have taken quite some time to do, and he'd have been absolutely wrecked by close range cruiser fire and torpedoes while he ignored them. He disabled Exeter and then had to turn to the other opponents in self preservation.Karl Heidenreich wrote: That´s not the point. The point is about Langsdorf´s failure to achieve victory when he had the chance (and indeed he had it at hand). Of course he lost the battle when he was winning: Exeter was his challenge, once out of the combat GS could handle the other two cruisers with her superior armament, even if he decides to disengage.