Clash of the Titans

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
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RF
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Clash of the Titans

Post by RF »

OK, it had to happen.

The ultimate one on one battleship shoot-out.

H-Classe vs. Yamato

Anybody care to pick a winner?
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Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by Tiornu »

Yamato is much larger and more heavily armed.
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RF
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Re: Clash of the Titans

Post by RF »

Tiornu wrote:Yamato is much larger and more heavily armed.
I believe the original H-Classe Hitler wanted were to be 21 inch gun calibre rather than the 16 inch later settled on.

Would H-Classe armour stand up to 18.1 inch shell hits?
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

The H-Class that Hitler wanted and was planned as a theoretical exercise about an "unsinkable ship" (I love that terminology) would be a 130,000 ton, 21" gun and heavily armoured ship twice the size of Yamato, it was the same size a Nimitz Class CVN.
The H-Class that was under building plans was more or less the size of an Iowa.
In this case it would be interesting to see a duel between the H-Class Friedrich der Grosse and USS Iowa. Yamato is still one step ahead of these both ships with her armour and 18" guns.

Remember: size does matter.
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Karl Heidenreich
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

I found this about H-43:

H-CLASS, 1943<26>

Displacement:(tons)(1)
Design: 109,246 (111,000 metric)
Full Load: 118,104 (120,000 metric)
Length:
Waterline: 1,082'
Beam: 157'6"
Draft:
Design: 39'5"
Full Load: 42'
Armament:
Main Battery: 8 20-inch (508mm) guns 4 x 2
Secondary: as "H-42"
Anti-Aircraft: as "H-42" except, 40 20mm
Armor: as "H-42"
Propulsion: as "H-42"
Speed:
Maximum & Overload: 31 knots

:shock:
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Post by Tiornu »

Actually, what Hitler really wanted was to fit Krupp's new 80cm gun onto a battleship, which would have required a displacement like that of the Kaneda design Jose recently posted. The KM had to drag an admiral into Hitler's offcie to explain the situation in terms a kindergartner could understand.
The designs from H-42 on were all investigative studies, not genuine plans for building a warship. An attempt to launch an H-44 would have resulted in a great mound of wreckage as the hull ran aground halfway off the slip.
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Post by Karl Heidenreich »

The H-Class that Hitler wanted and was planned as a theoretical exercise about an "unsinkable ship"
I knew it was theoretical. And as far as I know Germany didn´t had the instalations to build such a ship. The 60,000 ton H-Class was their upper limit... which is why I don´t understand why 16" guns? If you are tying to outgun your enemy, like the British that already had 16" and the US with 16" also, then: 18" like Yamato.

80 cm gun? That´s a 31.5" gun! What would be the size of a ship to carry at least one double turret?
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Post by Tiornu »

Yamato's design evolved around very specific requirements. The Japanese knew they were at an inescapable numerical disadvantage and thus needed a super-ship. The Germans did not have a specific scenario to work from. It appears they were building battleships simply to "keep up with the Joneses"--that is, simply to establish their standing among other major countries. They designed Scharnhorst with an eye on France's Dunkerque yet felt their own design was inferior. Without a pressing need, there was no drive to undertake the risks inherent in a giant leap of tonnage. I think it's accurate to say that the leap to Scharnhorst without the intermediate 20,000-ton Ship D paved the way for the mistakes that plagued Scharnhorst, so it was probably a good decision to make H a modest step up from Bismarck.
If a monitor with two 15in guns displaced about 8000 tons, a 31.5in version would be, what, 74,000 tons...urk!
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Post by ontheslipway »

Well, Hitler was an idiot. The gun was built and used against Russian ground targets. It required 2 railing tracks -side by side- to transport it.
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Post by miro777 »

hey...
to sum it up:

Yamato - H-class
Yamato wins...

USS Iowa - H-class
H-class wins...

(my opinion)

btw i will make a post: Dunkerque vs. Scharnhorst...
we'll see who wins...

adios
miro
Die See ruft....
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RF
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Post by RF »

miro777 wrote:hey...
to sum it up:

Yamato - H-class
Yamato wins...



(my opinion)

adios
miro
With 16 inch guns, yes. But the 1943 version with 20 inch guns as mentioned by Karl....
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Post by Tiornu »

The 1943 version had 18.9in guns. It would be easily defeated by the 100,000-ton, adamantite-armored Fulminator and its 22in guns (designed by me during Mrs Hildebrand's grammar class).
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Post by Bgile »

Tiornu wrote:The 1943 version had 18.9in guns. It would be easily defeated by the 100,000-ton, adamantite-armored Fulminator and its 22in guns (designed by me during Mrs Hildebrand's grammar class).
LOL Tiornu. :D

Yours was just as likely to be built!
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Post by miro777 »

hey...

hahaha....



wat would be the perfect warship for you??


adios
miro
Die See ruft....
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Post by Tiornu »

Perfect Warship Rule #1:
It must be able to exist.
Perfect Warship Rule #2:
Forget Rule #1, and make a ship with mithril shells and warp drive.
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