Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. battleship engagements, design your own warship, etc.
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RF
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Re: Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Post by RF » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:22 pm

pdunderhill wrote: My point being Berlin and 'an other German City' could have been 2 and 3.
I apologize if I'm telling Gran about eggs, but the Axis loses, whether by an internal coup, wholesale revolution precipitated by the USAAF use of an Atomic Bomb or most likely an overwhelming force from the East.
Munich was the designated A-bomb target in Germany, with Nurembourg the second choice. These cities were selected for being the cradle of the Nazi Party.

Berlin was specifically excluded as a target, as was Tokyo in Japan. The reason for that was that the Allies wanted the Axis leadership alive to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender, be it Fuhrer or Emporer.
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Re: Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Post by RF » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:25 pm

pdunderhill wrote: .
On the assumption that type 21s had extended the War in the Atlantic by two years, and assuming that the KM U-Boats had stayed in the Atlantic, there's no great history of the German Navy straying far from home, Southern Indian Ocean excepted.
I
The KM operated in every ocean of the world in WW2, including the Pacific. The type XXI would not have been restricted to the Atlantic.
Last edited by RF on Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Post by alecsandros » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:25 pm

pdunderhill wrote: My point being Berlin and 'an other German City' could have been 2 and 3.
I apologize if I'm telling Gran about eggs, but the Axis loses, whether by an internal coup, wholesale revolution precipitated by the USAAF use of an Atomic Bomb or most likely an overwhelming force from the East.
... IF the Type XXI would be operational in large numbers early in the war, Britain would lose the war of the Atlantic.
Losing the war of the Atlantic would mean losing the war.... And if that were so... From were would the atomic B-29 take off.... ? What would happen to the German atomic project without the constant pressure of the strategic air offensive ?
What would happen to US shipping across the globe under attack by this silent predator ?
etc

ede144
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Re: Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Post by ede144 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:22 pm

@ RF
I read ones that Manheim was the target number one for an atomic bomb. Do you have a source for Munich and Nürnberg?
Thanks in advance

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Re: Could the Type XXI U-boat have won the war?

Post by RF » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:11 pm

It was in a documentary about the OSS during WW2 concerning US strategic plans for the use of the bomb. Apparently the target identification was done in 1943 when it was expected that the bomb would be used on Germany and not on Japan, and it was assumed at the time of the projected drop that the Russians would still be east of the Barbarossa start line.

The targets were identified on the basis of being of significance polititically to the regime but without wiping out the political leadership. The objective was unconditional surrender and the Americans wanted the German leadership alive to be able to sign the instrument of unconditional surrender, particulary as it was thought likely that at the time that the Germans would still occupy the bulk of continental Europe. At that time the D-Day timetable was much longer than it turned out in reality - the Americans had expected a much longer war.

The documentary was some eight or so years ago on Channel Four in Britain, I cannot recall its name but it did feature comments by Robert Oppenheimer.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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