Naval History Forums

Thorsten Wahl wrote:


achieved according AVKS 23-25 shells per minute all guns; 19 - 21 sec

Byron Angel wrote:
BTW - along the lines of comparing WW1 era BBs to WW2 era BBs, when shall we schedule the comparison of, say, SMS BADEN versus USS WASHINGTON? I'd personally be fascinated.

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Byron Angel wrote:It seems to me that all this debate about TIRPITZ versus NEW MEXICO begs the real issue. The greatest danger to TIRPITZ would be the several 16in coastal batteries covering the sea approaches to NY. They were very accurate, largely impervious to any TIRPITZ return fire, and represented a real threat to any ship operating 3,000+ miles from its nearest safe port.

BTW - along the lines of comparing WW1 era BBs to WW2 era BBs, when shall we schedule the comparison of, say, SMS BADEN versus USS WASHINGTON? I'd personally be fascinated.

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ede144 wrote: If I read the discussions going on, than we have first the statement anything flying the Stars and Stripes will win over best what had the swastica painted on. If some one proves the contrary than it doesn't matter because it's irrelevant.

Nevertheless I don't know much about the costal batteries around New York at this time, however how old were they and what kind of guns could be found there. I wonder if we are talking about something like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40.6_cm_SK_C/34_gun

Regarding your comparison about SMS Baden versus USS Washington BB-56, I would like to know your opinion. However I recommend to read this http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 856.0.html to get an impression how it could be updated, if the HSF would have survived.

Byron Angel wrote:

ede144 wrote: If I read the discussions going on, than we have first the statement anything flying the Stars and Stripes will win over best what had the swastica painted on. If some one proves the contrary than it doesn't matter because it's irrelevant.

..... By no means, sir. I just find the idea of pitting TIRPITZ against a 14in-gunned battleship launched in 1917 to be rather pointless. The nationality of the other ship is irrelevant What useful purpose is served by such an exercise? What interesting observations might be derived? I'm really at a loss to think of any in either case.

Nevertheless I don't know much about the costal batteries around New York at this time, however how old were they and what kind of guns could be found there. I wonder if we are talking about something like this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40.6_cm_SK_C/34_gun

..... You need not wonder at all whether we are talking about smething like the 40.6cm SK C/34, which, like most German artillery designs, was an efficient well designed piece that followed the general German philosophy of a lighter shell and higher velocity. It will hopefully come as no surprise to you that other nations fielded i6in guns in coastal defense roles for the same reasons the Germans did: they were dangerous weapons with a long reach and did a very good job of defending important ports and harbors.

Regarding your comparison about SMS Baden versus USS Washington BB-56, I would like to know your opinion. However I recommend to read this http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index. ... 856.0.html to get an impression how it could be updated, if the HSF would have survived.

..... My opinion is that a re-built BADEN would have approximately the same chances against USS WASHINGTON as the re-fitted WW2 version of the WARSPITE - assuming of course that her re-building was confined to a fiscally realistic level and not the more fanciful spare-no-expense musings which appear on forum-marinearchiv. In short, my money would be on the USS WASHINGTON.


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Byron Angel wrote: ..... My opinion is that re-built BADEN would have approximately the same chances against USS WASHINGTON as the re-fitted WW2 version of the WARSPITE - assuming of course that her re-building was confined to a fiscally realistic level and not the more fanciful spare-no-expense musings which appear on forum-marinearchiv. In short, my money would be on the USS WASHINGTON.


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alecsandros wrote: I thought you were just being ironic :)

I doubt Baden would have had realistic chances against Washington...

Rick Rather wrote:... if one of those obsolescent 10" or 12" guns at the other forts hit that unarmored manifold, she wouldn't have the fuel to get home. If they collapse her stern,......

Dave Saxton wrote:I would be surprized if those shore batteries had any better luck hitting TP than the Vichy shore batteries had hitting BB59 at Casablanca. Since the Germans don't need to be "surgical" in a such a raid (assuming they would ever attempt it) they are going to do it at night and from max range. Those shore batteries can only hit the water at night.

Rick Rather wrote:You just made the same contradiction. I will ask again: If the 12"ers are useless, why does Tirpitz need to stay at long range?