Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

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Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by Djoser » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:28 pm

I think the Hood would win. Almost 4 knots speed advantage, and more than 10,000 tons greater displacement.

Still, the Yorcks would have been formidable opponents, and would have made short work of the Splendid Cats, I suspect.

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by WestPhilly » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:19 pm

Knowing that Hood was blown up - just like three other British battlecruisers at Jutland a generation previous - I don't see how you can come to this conclusion.

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by Kyler » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:51 pm

WestPhilly wrote:Knowing that Hood was blown up - just like three other British battlecruisers at Jutland a generation previous - I don't see how you can come to this conclusion.

WestPhilly is correct,

German Battlecruisers were more adabt to taking punishment than their British counterparts. Both in specs are fairly evenily matched, but since German designs proved superior throughout the war, I would go with the Ersatz Yorck. Truely the battlecruiser were bad ideas, and were never really used for what they were intended to do except for the Battle of the Falklands.
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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by tommy303 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:44 pm

One has to remember that part of the apparent strength of the German ships compared to the British, was due in part to the poor quality of British AP shells. These were found to be unlikely to penetrate heavy armour. Assuming Hood is completed in 1918, she will probably have the new, improved Shellite filled Greenboy AP, which will give her guns a much more reliable shell, although it suffered somewhat from poor fragmentation due to the 60/40 and 50/50 Shellite fillers. Post war the 70/30 Shellite was found to be adequately insensitive to shock and gave good fragmentation.

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by Kyler » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:25 pm

tommy303,

You are correct the introduction of Greenboy would have made the Hood a fiecer opponent but I would still give the edge Ersatz Yorck. It would be a fairly close battle that could go either way I would put it 60/40 in favor of the Yorck winning the battle.
"It was a perfect attack, Right Height, Right Range, Right cloud cover, Right speed,
Wrong f@%king ship!" Commander Stewart-Moore (HMS Ark Royal)

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by WestPhilly » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:31 am

tommy303,

It wasn't the poor quality of British armor piercing shells that blew up four of their battlecruisers in 25 years - 3 in one day! - it was their inability to stand up to German armor piercing shells. The Brtish battlecruisers could hit, they just couldn't be hit.

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by Djoser » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:21 am

Personally, as far as thinking a ship is admirable, I would favor the Yorcks even over the magnificent Hood. And to be sure the British battlecruisers were vulnerable, including the Hood as we have seen. I am not slighting the Yorcks by imagining they might be at a disadvantage.

But from what I have read about the battlecruisers blowing up at Jutland, it was as much the practice of keeping powder charges out in the open in order to speed up the rate of fire as it was the thin armor, causing the ships to blow up. With the possible exception of the Queen Mary, which blew up--according to the latest information I have seen--as a result of the 4 inch magazine going first. Much as has been speculated about with the Hood.

But unless the battle were fought at longer ranges where the Hood's weak deck armor would be a disadvantage, I would think she would still have the edge due to speed and displacement? Though I suppose that displacement advantage could be over-ruled by the no doubt greatly superior interior subdivision, would it be enough to match the 12,000-13,000 ton edge the Hood had?

If I could create the ideal naval wargaming situation, it would be a couple of Yorcks, a couple of Mackensens, and the two surviving Derfflingers, vs. a couple of Hoods, Repulse and Renown, and a couple of the Cats, with improved charge safety measures and better projectiles. What a fight that would be! I would give the edge to the Germans though, due to the Cats' and the R twins' weak armor.

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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by lwd » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:06 pm

Saying that Hood "blew up" is to a large extent irrelevant in this match up. It would be like saying Kirishima didn't stand up to Washington so it wouldn't be a good match for either of the two mentioned above.

In this case it would seem to me that both ships have guns that can hurt the others badly so he who gets the first telling hits is likely to win. From what I understand of the fire control of the two sides German vessels usually got on target faster but over time the British fire control equalled and then surpassed the German one for number of hits. In a one on one battle this would seem to give an edge to the Germans. On the other hand Hood appears to have been able to get on target quickly at least during WWII. In any case in a one on one engagement vs two near equalts 60:40 is not close it's a huge difference. If we except the French and German twins and the Yamato I'm not sure any of the WWII new battleships had that much of an edge over any of the others at least once they were fully worked up an functional (IE Richeleu minus 3 guns and in danger of loosing more doesn't count). The exception to this would be if one ship is totally lacking in radar and the other has a "blind fire" capability.

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Gary
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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by Gary » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:35 pm

I'm not to knowledgable about the performance of the WW1 German 15 inch weapon.
Were the WW1 turrets as vulnerable as Bismarcks to enemy fire?
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Re: Ersatz Yorck vs Hood

Post by dougieo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:02 pm

WestPhilly wrote:tommy303,

It wasn't the poor quality of British armor piercing shells that blew up four of their battlecruisers in 25 years - 3 in one day! - it was their inability to stand up to German armor piercing shells. The Brtish battlecruisers could hit, they just couldn't be hit.
They could hit, but didnt do as much damage as they should have because of the shells.

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