Scharnhorst and Gneisenau vs Yamato
Scharnhorst and Gneisenau vs Yamato
The weakest battleships of World War II against the most powerful of them all. This is a two against one but considering Yamato's armor and guns...
Scharnhorst & Gneisenau
Displacement 38,400 tons
Main guns 9 x 11"
Secondary guns 12 x 5.9"
Armor 13.7" belt, 13.4" turrets, 13.7" CT
Speed 32 knots
Yamato
Displacement 72,000 tons
Main guns 9 x 18"
Secondary guns 6 x 6.1"
Armor 16.1" belt, 25.6" turrets, 19.7" CT
Speed 27 knots
Scharnhorst & Gneisenau
Displacement 38,400 tons
Main guns 9 x 11"
Secondary guns 12 x 5.9"
Armor 13.7" belt, 13.4" turrets, 13.7" CT
Speed 32 knots
Yamato
Displacement 72,000 tons
Main guns 9 x 18"
Secondary guns 6 x 6.1"
Armor 16.1" belt, 25.6" turrets, 19.7" CT
Speed 27 knots
S+G vs Yamato
If I were the Germans, I'd run.
Ironically, the maximum theoretical gunnery range of all three ships is the same...circa 45,000 yards. Yamato's foretop height was much higher than in Scharnhorst so the optical ranging capability of the Japanese ship was also greater. The German ships also wouldn't have a chance of knocking out a main battery turret on Yamato. The best chance for a kill on Yamato might be a lucky hit on one of the six inch secondary turrets and thus detonate a magazine. The German commander would have to be insane to take on Yamato when he could run away.
Ironically, the maximum theoretical gunnery range of all three ships is the same...circa 45,000 yards. Yamato's foretop height was much higher than in Scharnhorst so the optical ranging capability of the Japanese ship was also greater. The German ships also wouldn't have a chance of knocking out a main battery turret on Yamato. The best chance for a kill on Yamato might be a lucky hit on one of the six inch secondary turrets and thus detonate a magazine. The German commander would have to be insane to take on Yamato when he could run away.
- Torpedo Bob
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The problem is that even a single hit by Yamato's 18 inch shells could be disastrous, and the Japanese mammoth can resist several 11 inch hits without much problem. If I were the German commander I wouldn't close the range. In my opinion, Scharnhorst and Gneisenau should attack separately fighting Yamato at long distance and from different angles. Since S and G have higher rate of fire and advantage of speed they could always break away at will. If the Germans can obtain hits before Yamato does, maybe destroying a rangefinder, that could be the key. I wouldn't dare closing the range and go for a torpedo attack until Yamato's main battery is silenced, is this possible?
- _Derfflinger_
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Since the KM's mission orders usually were to avoid combat with superior, equal, or "anything even close" combatants, and that S & G usually operated alone with no support, I would recommend the twin sisters break away from Yamato and run for the hills.
Given that this is a hypothetical scenario, if the SH and GU were forced to engage in a contest with Yamato, as suggested above, a strategy similar to what the RN used against Adm Graf Spee at the River Plate battle would be their only hope for success - take two divergent positions so as to split Yamato's fire, stay in contact for close coordination, use their superior speed to stay at extreme range, and use their advantage of more rapid fire to try for effective damage vs their much bigger opponent. Sort of a "two Davids vs Goliath" situation.
Derf
Given that this is a hypothetical scenario, if the SH and GU were forced to engage in a contest with Yamato, as suggested above, a strategy similar to what the RN used against Adm Graf Spee at the River Plate battle would be their only hope for success - take two divergent positions so as to split Yamato's fire, stay in contact for close coordination, use their superior speed to stay at extreme range, and use their advantage of more rapid fire to try for effective damage vs their much bigger opponent. Sort of a "two Davids vs Goliath" situation.
Derf
- Torpedo Bob
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- _Derfflinger_
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Would the grand plan have been, assuming the fitting of Gneisenau with 15" guns was successful, to ultimately do the same to Scharnhorst? Since the project to switch over GU was never completed, I don't recall reading of definite plans for SH.
Assuming the two ladies could keep their noses out of the swells (a bow extension was planned), they would have been quite the pair with 15" ordinance.
I would assume a slight speed decrease would also come with the change.
Derf
Assuming the two ladies could keep their noses out of the swells (a bow extension was planned), they would have been quite the pair with 15" ordinance.
I would assume a slight speed decrease would also come with the change.
Derf
- Karl Heidenreich
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I don´t believe that the Twins or the three pocket battleships could had any chance against Yamato. As a matter of fact I find very doubtfull that Bismarck and Tirpiz could win such a battle against Yamato. The Japanese BB was designed and built in order to balance the US numerical superiority in BBs, so, it was intended to fight against one, two or more enemies at any given time: Yamato vs. Arizona + Nevada or Yamato vs. NC + SD.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill
Sir Winston Churchill
The Best S & G could hope for would be to mess up Yamato's topside (similiar to what happened to SoDak at Guadalcanal) as the 11 inch guns would not be able to get anywhere near penetrating Yamato's vitals.
S & G should run from this encounter.
S & G should run from this encounter.
God created the world in 6 days.........and on the 7th day he built the Scharnhorst
hey...
i don't think Scharnhorst and Gneisenau would have done much damage on Yamato, even if they had 15in guns...
though i think that Tirpitz and Bismarck would have almost defiantly gotten a win over Yamato...
Two ships of the Bismarck class....they could have beaten anyone...
miro
i don't think Scharnhorst and Gneisenau would have done much damage on Yamato, even if they had 15in guns...
though i think that Tirpitz and Bismarck would have almost defiantly gotten a win over Yamato...
Two ships of the Bismarck class....they could have beaten anyone...
miro
Die See ruft....
How about Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau plus all three panzerschiffe together?Karl Heidenreich wrote:I don´t believe that the Twins or the three pocket battleships could had any chance against Yamato. As a matter of fact I find very doubtfull that Bismarck and Tirpiz could win such a battle against Yamato. The Japanese BB was designed and built in order to balance the US numerical superiority in BBs, so, it was intended to fight against one, two or more enemies at any given time: Yamato vs. Arizona + Nevada or Yamato vs. NC + SD.