RFC equipped Yamato vs. Iowa

[David89]

I remember reading in a book (forgotten its name and author because it was a long time ago) that at Samar Yamato got a stradle on one of the US escort carriers at a range of over 30,000m, but I can't find much further on this. Perhaps someone here can confirm or disprove it.

[Dave Saxton]

I have ran across a few more recent accounts, citing Kurita's reports, that the Yamato opened fire at 31,000 meters (33,900 yards). Some of these accounts are quite interesting as they differ from the usual accounts in some details concerning the Yamato's shooting.

[Karl Heidenreich]

David89:

I remember reading in a book (forgotten its name and author because it was a long time ago) that at Samar Yamato got a stradle on one of the US escort carriers at a range of over 30,000m, but I can't find much further on this. Perhaps someone here can confirm or disprove it.
I remember reading in a book (forgotten its name and author because it was a long time ago) that at Samar Yamato got a stradle on one of the US escort carriers at a range of over 30,000m, but I can't find much further on this. Perhaps someone here can confirm or disprove it.

It will be good to confirm it. For sure it could vanish some mis handed concepts around here.


Dave Saxton:

I have ran across a few more recent accounts, citing Kurita's reports, that the Yamato opened fire at 31,000 meters (33,900 yards). Some of these accounts are quite interesting as they differ from the usual accounts in some details concerning the Yamato's shooting.

Differ in which way? It would be interesting to add new information to this.

[lwd]

Some don't give her any credit for coming close to a US ship. Others give her credit for at least one or more hits. With others between.

[Karl Heidenreich]

lwd:

Some don't give her any credit for coming close to a US ship. Others give her credit for at least one or more hits. With others between.

But it´s important not to let this die or stop here. If this same situation would be about an Iowa then we will be reading a complete thread on how she hit a Japanese tug with her anchor while her crew was looking for geishas in Okinawa, being the hit proof of how remarkably well the RDFC works. Let´s research to know what really happened. I have Wilmott´s "Leyte Gulf" but don´t have read it still because I´m still trying to read Friedman´s. This next weekend I´ll try to search about the action.

Best regards.

[Tiornu]

Some don't give her any credit for coming close to a US ship.

She may have hit two US ships.

[Dave Saxton]

Differ in which way? It would be interesting to add new information to this.

Not having the accounts handy, I'm hesitant to provide more on line, because working from memory I might misquote them, but more importantly I can't examine more closely their sources. These differing veiws in the details could have profound implications, and are bound to be controversial.

[jazsa80]

But it´s important not to let this die or stop here. If this same situation would be about an Iowa then we will be reading a complete thread on how she hit a Japanese tug with her anchor while her crew was looking for geishas in Okinawa, being the hit proof of how remarkably well the RDFC works.

Thats is bloody funny Karl!!! Im crying.

[jazsa80]

Jaluz Skulki (Spelling????) Anantomy of Ship says something along those lines. Also claiming she sank a destroyer and a CVE for 102 18.1" rounds fired or something.

In relation to Karl's post, Ive also heard Iowa's RDFC could actually teleport rounds directly into an enemy magazine.. destroying the enemy ship with one shot. True, its in her TROM.

[lwd]

lwd:

Some don't give her any credit for coming close to a US ship. Others give her credit for at least one or more hits. With others between.

But it´s important not to let this die or stop here.

I agree. Unfortunatly we'll probably never have definitive information. I suspect that reality as usual lies somewhere in the middle. It would be nice to at least narrow the range a bit though.

If this same situation would be about an Iowa then we will be reading a complete thread on how she hit a Japanese tug with her anchor while her crew was looking for geishas in Okinawa, being the hit proof of how remarkably well the RDFC works....

Funny.... not particularly accurate or pertinant but funny.

[lwd]

I have ran across a few more recent accounts, citing Kurita's reports, that the Yamato opened fire at 31,000 meters (33,900 yards)...

Was curious about this so ran some calculations:
From: http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6322.0
Plugging 127 feet as the height of Yamato's range finder her horizon would have been ~26,000 yards according to:
http://www.boatsafe.com/tools/horizon.htm
Plugging 12' in we get a horizon of ~8,000 yards or a sum of ~34,000 yards. So the first 12 feet of the US ships hulls would have been below the horizon. Certainly enough of the CVE's above the horizon to see given good visibility. On the other hand I've seen reports that the Japanese misjudged the range due misjudging the size of their opponents (this has always seamed a bit questionable to me). There's also the possiblity that they opened fire when the CVE's were that far away but fired initally vs the closer DE's and DD's. Will try to check some referances and see what more I can find.

So far not much definitive. Most sources do seam to agree that the Japanese opened fire at around 30,000 yards and were getting stradles fairly soon.

[Bgile]

Personally I don't doubt such shooting is possible, just that it would require very good visibility. Shooting at a hull down target isn't in itself a big problem with heavy gun shell splashes.

[paul mercer]

Hi Bgile:

I took the hit probablilty from navweaps.com. I used two legs, one for the 35.000-40.000 yard interval (in which the deck CAN be penetrated) and the other for the 35.000-25.000 yards interval (in which the deck CAN NOT be penetrated). For the first leg the probability for Iowa, firing continuosly, of hitting a Bismarck size target is 1.5 times. So I figure that all the money goes in that hit, because at less range the vitals would not be penetrated and below 25.000 yards Yamato will open fire, so Iowa can be damaged too. The "inmunity" of Iowa is for Yamato to stay outside the 35.000 yards circle, assuming that Yamato would not hit at that distance (which is also an asumption).

A question here chaps, obviously any penetration is going to do damage, but what of the upperworks, i.e. range finders, fire control, radar even the bridge itself, if some of these are hit and seriously damaged the ship surely looses her capacity to fight back efectively. I know there are back up systems, but until the are put into action the ship (either Yamoto or Iowa) could be taking a lot more punishment, after all the Bismarck suffered a major hit from Rodney and in the Counts words "that was the end of the fighting instuments" - just how vunerable were these items to heavy shells?

[tommy303]

Most fire control positions, ie., directors and rangefinders, were extremely vulnerable to main armament hits from a battleship (or even heavy cruiser for that matter), as the amount of armour which could be devoted to them was relatively small for reasons of stability.

[Dave Saxton]

The likleyhood of such hits occuring has proven to be likely as well. These locations are neccesarily extremities sticking up, and are likely to get whacked sooner or later. Besides Scharnhorst and Bismarck, I can think of at least three other occurances off the top of my head, including South Dakota. BB57 had lost all but one radar set, and all communication radio areils.