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torpedoes

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:08 am
by paul.mercer
Gentlemen,
This may seem a bit of a daft question given the age of missiles, but do any warships today still carry torpedoes?

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:08 pm
by OpanaPointer
A triple tube mount doesn't take up much space and it's another string in the bow.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:33 am
by Steve Crandell
paul.mercer wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:08 am
Gentlemen,
This may seem a bit of a daft question given the age of missiles, but do any warships today still carry torpedoes?
Yes. Submarines, obviously. Destroyers carry ASW torpedoes for their helos, and It doesn't cost much in weight or money to install torpedo tubes near the helicopter magazine. Also, some ASW missiles have a lightweight torpedo as their payload.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:02 pm
by marcelo_malara
I have ever wander about this. Why the surface torpedo disappeared? Nowadays it is clear that missiles are faster, but back in the 60s there were almost no anti ship missiles aboard, while the torpedo had already evolved to the guided monopropellant powered device that gave them about 50 km range with unheard off accuracy.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:37 pm
by Steve Crandell
I think the CV had become the chief offensive weapon system, and getting within 50 km of a CV would be a difficult proposition unless you are in a submarine.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:59 pm
by marcelo_malara
Yes, but not every navy had a CV, so you can say that there was a need for the the torpedo yet.

Regards

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:33 am
by OpanaPointer

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:04 am
by Steve Crandell
marcelo_malara wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:59 pm
Yes, but not every navy had a CV, so you can say that there was a need for the the torpedo yet.

Regards
Which is why the Soviet Union pioneered the development of anti-ship missiles. Of course, they also had a very large number of submarines.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:17 pm
by wadinga
Fellow Contributors,

Searching for a control mechanism to allow:
while the torpedo had already evolved to the guided monopropellant powered device that gave them about 50 km range with unheard off accuracy.
I came across the Hedy Lamarr and George Antheil 1941 patent for frequency hopping to be applied to radio control of torpedoes. Correct me if I'm wrong but radio waves don't really work underwater apart from Ultra Low Frequency for low bandwidth communications, for which you need a very long aerial (underwater aerial :shock: )

Frequency hopping is applied to missile control to try to avoid jamming, and to other kinds of communications, but radio controlled torpedoes must have been a dead end. What aside from acoustic homing gives any kind of "accuracy" at 50 km range?

RN Spearfish can apparently do 80 knots for shorter ranges and spooled wire control gets into into the target vicinity before passive acoustic homing. However we are in the area where manufacturer claims and deliberate misinformation cloud the picture. RN Tigerfish had very low reliability in service.

All the best

wadinga

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:29 pm
by marcelo_malara
Well, long range torpedoes use mid course guidance thru a cable, receiving target data from the parent platform, the torpedo onboard sensors have not the space for the sensitivity needed for a 50 km detection.

I must say that I am in a mistake with this, the wonder-propellants were not available until the 60s, unless in the USN. The USN experimented with NAVOL (hydrogen peroxide) till 1952, then went to electric propulsion for all their torpedoes, until the Mk46 ASW of 1968. A 50 km guided torpedo does not seem possible in the time frame before antiship missiles came into existence in numbers.

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:45 pm
by marcelo_malara
About radio guidance for torpedoes, yes, there is no way for this unless you deploy an aerial above surface. Anyway, here in Argentina somebody tried exactly this, radio guidance and (stranger yet) explosion engine propulsion, air admitted via a kind of snorkel, will look for pictures. It had a large warhead, the intention was to attack a landing force while on the final approach to the beach.

Regards

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:18 pm
by marcelo_malara
Here is the article of the Argentine project, it was developed by an Italian engineer that had made something similar during the war. Sorry it is in Spanish, but there are some pictures so you can get an idea of the device, the engine would be an DB605.


https://issuu.com/archivohistorico/docs ... archivo_33

Re: torpedoes

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:05 am
by OpanaPointer
marcelo_malara wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:45 pm
About radio guidance for torpedoes, yes, there is no way for this unless you deploy an aerial above surface. Anyway, here in Argentina somebody tried exactly this, radio guidance and (stranger yet) explosion engine propulsion, air admitted via a kind of snorkel, will look for pictures. It had a large warhead, the intention was to attack a landing force while on the final approach to the beach.

Regards
Torpedoes have had some really weird guidance systems.

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