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Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:54 am
by mcollins00
I understand how a warship's turrets are armored against Gunfire, but what about the actual barrels of the guns themselves? Are they armored too? What would it take to knock out the barrel of a large caliber naval gun? was this something that ever happened?

As an example, at Denmark Strait, Prince Eugene's guns couldn't penetrate Prince of Wales' turrets, but what would happen if one of those 8" shells hit one of the barrels?

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:33 pm
by Thorsten Wahl
they produce a indentation.
If memory serves this happened to Seydlitz during the Jutland battle 1916.

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:55 pm
by OpanaPointer

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:44 pm
by Mostlyharmless
It happened to South Dakota, possibly more than once. At Santa Cruz https://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57a.htm has:

“The ship received a direct hit from a 500-pound bomb on top of Main Battery Turret # 1. It did not penetrate but deformed two of the three 16-Inch barrels of #2 turret.”

At the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, she was hit by a 14” shell and the damage report https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... -no57.html has:

“Fragments and blast deflected upward from the point of impact demolished the gas seal and water shed for 30 feet around the circumference of the barbette, gouged the gun sleeves of the right and center guns of Turret III and ignited the gun bloomers. Some difficulty was experienced in training the turret after the hit but it was believed that the turret was still able to fire.”

Robert Lundgren and Nathan Okun have criticised that report, commenting “For these reasons, the preparation of the damage report had been given a very low priority and the late date of its publication and the paltry seven sources listed as being used in writing it are a reflection of just how low a priority it had.” However, the criticism tended to centre on what types of shell had hit rather than the damage itself.

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:10 pm
by OpanaPointer
The report's online for those who want to see it. https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... -no57.html

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:09 am
by Francis Marliere
I guess you probably know, but in doubt, I precise: as far as I know, Richelieu's missing barrel was not destroyed by an ennemy shell, but by the explosion of a projectile inside the barrel.

Regards,

Francis Marliere

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:15 pm
by OpanaPointer
Actually, I didn't know. Thanks for the more accurate info. :clap:

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:35 am
by Alberto Virtuani
Hello OpenaPointer,
Francis Marliere is right, the gun N.7 of turret II of Richelieu was damaged by the premature explosion of the shell inside the barrel during the engagement against Barham and Resolution when at anchor at Dakar.
Similar (but less spectacular) problems happened to gun N.8 and later to N.5, always in turret II with standard charge SD21.

The cause of the problem was analyzed by an official inquiry and conclusions are posted below (from Jordan-Dumas book "French Battleships" pag.149). The propellant change (initially suspected to be responsible due to two different charges (SD19 and SD21 being used, SD19 re-manufactured in emergency) was not the cause, instead it was the shell design, with cavities (that were initially intended to host toxic gas) and that generated a weak point in the shell, that could be detonated by the pressure of the gases of the charge, already increased by the high temperature inside the turret.

Turret I was safe only because the re-manufactured charges (SD19 was initially intended for Strasbourg 330 mm guns) were under-powered. The problem was solved filling the cavities with cement and applying more resistant caps to them.

Barrel_Problem_Richelieu.jpg
Barrel_Problem_Richelieu.jpg (56.74 KiB) Viewed 4282 times

Bye, Alberto

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:31 am
by Herr Nilsson
Thorsten Wahl wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:33 pm
they produce a indentation.
If memory serves this happened to Seydlitz during the Jutland battle 1916.
Image

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:49 am
by RF
mcollins00 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:54 am
I understand how a warship's turrets are armored against Gunfire, but what about the actual barrels of the guns themselves? Are they armored too? What would it take to knock out the barrel of a large caliber naval gun? was this something that ever happened?

As an example, at Denmark Strait, Prince Eugene's guns couldn't penetrate Prince of Wales' turrets, but what would happen if one of those 8" shells hit one of the barrels?
On 27 May 1941 one of the guns on Dora turret on Bismarck did receive a direct hit with the barrel apparently splitting and peeling back ''like a banana''

Re: Hitting the Gun Barrel

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:57 am
by Carl Schwamberger
RF wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:49 am
...

On 27 May 1941 one of the guns on Dora turret on Bismarck did receive a direct hit with the barrel apparently splitting and peeling back ''like a banana''
Peeling back like a banana sounds more like a in bore explosion. I wonder what other observation or evidence us available here.