Scharnhorst ammo hoists for 105mm's.

[marcelo_malara]

Yes, that is the area I was thinking about. Now look at this, is a photo from Koop´s, bear in mind that it is not the actual ship but a mock up:



It looks like what you were asking about is actually a pile of life rafts with a small dinghy on top.

[rtwpsom2]

No, that is another vent with louvres on it. The area I was asking about is under the ships boats just ahead of the domed rangefinder tower. It's because of those boats that there are no good pictures of this area. If you look closely under the boats in the model, the modeler didn't even try to put any detail under there, quite simply because there are few references available.

[marcelo_malara]

Ok, I understand, but doesn´t the vent in the photo correspond to the after rectangle with the red X in your plans? You can even see the smal closet (or whatever it is) at its side, but nothing like the rectangle with the circles in front. May be it was something added later. I was thinking in a ready use locker for star shells, they are no needed in the same volume like AA shells, so 14 per side may be more than enough.

[rtwpsom2]

Yes, I am sorry, I forgot there were more of those circles back there.

[marcelo_malara]

Now look at this:



The louvres appears much higher than in the model, and indeed there are a second (lower) vent on front which may correspond with the rectangle with the circles.

[Jack B.]

The rectangles are fresh air intakes for the boiler rooms. The circles I am guessing are the various exhaust uptakes from diesel generators galley stoves and such. These run to the top of the funnel ring.

[Jack B.]

Marcelo That last picture you posted is of Gneisenau. rtwpsom, the photo you have of the 10.5 amo hoist I have several books that list that picture from the Prinz Eugen.

The amo hoist for the midship 15cm guns and 10.5cm guns was not a direct lift. The magazine for the midship 10.5cm amo was in compartment 13 frame 125.

[rtwpsom2]

I actually have a couple of really good pictures of that vent that unfortunately I can't currently share, but it looks like this:



The hanger actually extends over this area so all you see is the outside of the louvres. The pictures do not show anything that would correspond to the circles back there so I was kind of ignoring them.

As for the ammo hoist being on Eugen, I have no idea, it's in Steve Wipers Tirpitz book, thats all I know.

[Legend]

WOW! Inventor, am I correct? That must have taken a long time to develop! The detail is amazing also! I wouldn't have had the gumption or patience to do all the rails...

[marcelo_malara]

I have a question for Jack. Acording to Koop´s plans the 10.5cm magazine is located in compartment V, which is odd as the guns are located foreward of that. Are they wrong?

Regards

[rtwpsom2]

It's SolidWorks, actually. It has taken me since early september, so far. If you would like to see more of it, I might post some renders later on. Right now they are posted in a thread in the shipyard and drydock forum at http://www.military-meshes.com. You have to register to see the pictures though.

[tommy303]

Hi Marcelo,

I have a question for Jack. Acording to Koop´s plans the 10.5cm magazine is located in compartment V, which is odd as the guns are located foreward of that. Are they wrong?

There were several 10,5cm magazines. The main one being below the midships flak positions in compartment X. There were two lifts which ran from lower quarters up to the port and starboard ready-rooms on the shelter deck just inboard of the two Flak director towers as excellently illustrated in the 3D renderings. There was also one farther aft, as you pointed out. This serviced the after 10,5cm mount and acted as a reserve for the main one. As was usual in the German Navy, ready-used lockers made of splinter proof armour were stored inside the superstructure ready rooms where the Flak crews would take shelter when not needed in an action, there being relatively few visible ammo lockers on deck at the guns. The arrangement of central hoists for groups of guns was inefficient and required larger numbers of ammunition handlers to move the rounds from the ready rooms to the guns (usually on hand trucks) compared to heavy flak arrangements in the US and Royal Navy ships of the same time period.

[marcelo_malara]

Ok, thanks Tommy, now I found them.

Regards

[rtwpsom2]

So what are the lockers under the boat racks for? Crane tackle? Maybe boat tackle?

[Jack B.]

According to Koop the 10.5cm magazines are shown on plan 04 item 65 Plan 04 is of Zwischendeck, and Oberes Plattformdeck which is where the item 65 are shown the aft 10.5 magazine is midships in compartment V frame 60. The forward magazines are port and starboard compartment 13
I’m not sure the ammo hoists come up inside the crew ready rooms located midships on the Aufbaudeck shown on Plan 02. The hoists for the aft 10.5 is very clear in compartment 5 around frame 61 on either side of the centerline The hoist for the forward magazines look like they go right up to Oberes Plattformdeck just behind the command station support steel. How they would get the ammunition from there to the ready rooms is a good question. If the Koop drawings are correct they would have to transfer the 10.5 ammo from frame 136 on Oberes Plattformdeck to the midships gun

Solid works is a great program. The company I work for uses it for design work. I have been trying to get a few of the draftsman to teach me how to use it. So far I have managed a 38.0cm gun barrel, but that is it.