Obama´s mosque

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:20 pm

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

Bgile
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Bgile » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:32 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Bgile:
Exactly how do you propose stopping this mosque from being built, since it's against US law to discriminate against anyone based on their religion?
Easy: a referendum of the people of New York, or of the US if necesary. The best way is always to call for the people, which is why the Democrats are going to be kicked heavy this next November, by the way...
You cannot alter the US constitution with a referendum. That is called mob rule.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:49 pm

Bgile:
You cannot alter the US constitution with a referendum. That is called mob rule.
That's what a Federal judge said when he threw to the garbage can some millions of Californian votes against gay marriage. But it seems that voting is good for the liberals when it comes to electing Obama and his thugs but it is not when it reverts some "social conquers". I would like to see what Washington, Jefferson or the same Abe Lincoln could have said when someone tells them that the people's will, in the form of a referendum, is just "mob rule".
You know which other regimes prefer to dictate before going to the people and ask them what they want? Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union, Islamic Republic of Iran, Duvalier's Haiti, Aidid's Somalia, People's Republic of China, Vietnam, Burma, etc.

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An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by boredatwork » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:00 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:boreatwork:

There is something odd here:

Three days ago you were adamant that these guys are peacefull western oriented people with which you play and ride in the subway. Now you acknowledge that having a conflict with them is un wise because of their strenght in numbers. Basically you are saying there is no winning scenario because any harm we do to them we do to ourselves?
No as usual you completely miss the point.

Look at the words YOU tried to put in my mouth: "there is no winning scenario because any harm we do to them..."

Why does "winning" require "harming" people just for being muslims?

If your goal is to establish the supremacy of the christian religion then yes in order to "win" you need to "harm" Islam.

On the otherhand if your goal is to live and let live, and exist peacefully along side each other then "harming" them is counter productive.

Why would I want to do the peaceful people riding the subway with me any harm at all? What do I care if they pray towards Mecca 5 times a day or fast at odd times a year, or don't eat pepperoni on their pizza? And why would it seem odd to you that I would think those peaceful people might turn violent if government thugs destroyed their mosques, burned their Korans and told them how to raise their children? Wouldn't you?
Second. You fight the war you can win, not the one you can't. Low intensity conflicts, proxy wars, "pacification" wars are not those the west can win. So the conflict MUST escalate to that you can win: high intensity, high tech wars.
No you fight wars that NEED TO BE FOUGHT, not wars that don't.

Police action against extremist NEEDS TO BE FOUGHT. Picking a fight with an entire ethnic group over the actions of a less than 5% of their numbers doesn't. I would rather resources be spent combatting organised crime, gang violence, drug trade, child porn rings, identity theft, and any of a dozen other REAL threats to our security than engauge in a neo-nazi crusade against the scape goat of the day.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by boredatwork » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:13 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Anyway, it's Toronto and not San Jose, Costa Rica, the first of the capital to burn in an islamic riot for the imposition of the sharia. Hope you buy a fire extinguisher (A+B+C fire suppressor).
Toronto? Capital?

Glad to see your predictions of a muslim uprising was based on solid, detailed research regarding my country and it's politics.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:26 pm

Boreatwork:
Toronto? Capital?
Meaning big city, obviously, as New York or Los Angeles or Hamburg or Birmingham or whenever...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:04 pm

boreatwork:
No as usual you completely miss the point.

Look at the words YOU tried to put in my mouth: "there is no winning scenario because any harm we do to them..."

Why does "winning" require "harming" people just for being muslims?
You are the one putting words in my mouth: I am NOT saying something has to be done with this people because THEY are muslims. I say that their organizations must be dealth with. And some of these organizations are nations, by the way. I don't care if they are muslims or buddits or christians or atheists.
If your goal is to establish the supremacy of the christian religion then yes in order to "win" you need to "harm" Islam.
You are missing the point: where do I have said something in favor of a Christian society? I have beeen talking, all the time, of a western society, heir of the helenistic culture. I don't want a Christian supremacy more than I want an islamic one. They can have their religion and you can be Christian and I will believe in God the way I think it fits my conscience. If you want to make me resemble a bigot or a religious fanatic you are mistaken because I can hardly be classified as a Catholic, which organization is utterly corrupt with a good for nothing Pope.
On the otherhand if your goal is to live and let live, and exist peacefully along side each other then "harming" them is counter productive.
That's how precisely I live. I don't mess with no one and I don't want anyone messing with me. I don't want that my daughter will be forced to use an stupid veil sometime in the future because is required by the sharia.
And why would it seem odd to you that I would think those peaceful people might turn violent if government thugs destroyed their mosques, burned their Korans and told them how to raise their children? Wouldn't you?
There was no need of "goverment thugs" to do anything for them to hijack 4 jet liners, or blow USS Cole, or put bombs in London or Madrid, or bloew the US embassies in Africa, or kill the jewish athletes at Munich, or kill all those russian kids at the Theater some years ago, or take the airliners at Entebe or Mogadishhu, or blew the Budda's statues, or the Bombai's terrorist acts, etc. etc. etc. They are spilling first blood...
No you fight wars that NEED TO BE FOUGHT, not wars that don't.

Police action against extremist NEEDS TO BE FOUGHT. Picking a fight with an entire ethnic group over the actions of a less than 5% of their numbers doesn't. I would rather resources be spent combatting organised crime, gang violence, drug trade, child porn rings, identity theft, and any of a dozen other REAL threats to our security than engauge in a neo-nazi crusade against the scape goat of the day.
Neo nazi? As far as I know the islamic people and politics like the nazis. Nazis hate Jewish people as the Islamic do. Nazis and Islamic share their hate. Haven't you heard Irani's president defending the Holocaust denials?

Don't insult me with this neo nazi crap. Is the usual liberal hate spilling argument: if you do not abide political correct definitons then you are a racist, a bigot, a southerner confederate simpathizer, a Ku Klux Klan Imperial Wizard fan and a nazi. I remember when the comunists all over the world yelled that Ronald Reagan was a nazi because he was fighting the Evil Empire. I remember the comunist party youngster organization telling that I was a nazi because I was a member of the National Guard Reserve here in Costa Rica in the 80ies against the Sandinistas. Now, I'm a nazi because I think in a different way that you do about social related issues. Sorry: but it is the liberals with their love for a big central all powerfull goverment that superseed individual rights what is more alike to nazism than "alternative reaction people".

And you don't choose which war you have to fight, many of them just came to you. But you can choose how you wanna fight them.

I understand Neville Chamberlain: he saw opposing to Hitler as a path for a bloody war... maybe 1 million casualties, maybe 2 million. He, and nobody, wanted such a bloody war. So, by avoiding it he thew his country and the world into a 50 million + casualties war.

"Never let dissorder to take place in order to avoid a war, because it never is avoided, only delayed against you..."

-Nicolo de Maquiaveli
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:17 am

Talking about the devil:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39200448/ns ... stn_africa

One of those good sharing playfull fellows whose comrades hijack jet liners or deny the Holocaust.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:04 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Before I submit any reply I will like to post this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39175408/ns ... ?gt1=43001
Even the French are starting to react like the Danes... :think:
This is nothing new. The French have always been pretty savvy about maintaining a degree of independence and control over their own country, including staying out of NATO and trying to lead the EEC and EU for their own ends. Their immigration policy, if you think about it, is quite subtle - we'll let them in, and keep them going - all the way to the Channel and into England on the other side...

This issue over the Burkas has the French spot on. In Britain the politically correct Conservative Party views the French action as racist and over the top. Well they are after the Muslim vote aren't they? And what it will do is boost the vote for UKIP and the BNP.....
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:15 am

boredatwork wrote: Toronto? Capital?
Toronto I believe is the commercial centre of Canada and performs most of the functions of a capital city, even though the official seat of government is located in Ottawa. To that extent I think Karl's meaning is clear.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by lwd » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:33 pm

Bgile wrote:Exactly how do you propose stopping this mosque from being built, since it's against US law to discriminate against anyone based on their religion?
One way that would have worked if they had thought it might be aproblem ahead of time would have simply been to have zoned the area in such a way that no houses of worship were permitted. Attempting to do it at this point would rightly be seen as discrimanatory. While I'm far from a fan of Islam I still don't see the objections as being very rational.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:16 pm

As I have said previously, the 3,000 odd victims of the outrage included an unknown number of Muslims, so to that extent Muslims are victims as well as those of other faiths and none. From that perspective the building of such a mosque shouldn't be too much of a problem, even if it is seen as political correctness. One of the facets of this sort of terrorism is that the fanatics are killing their own people and this is a point that should be brought out.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Herr Nilsson » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:37 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote: First. The main problem is NOT in their own countries: this mob can live their desert and flea infected lands. The ones in the West are the main problem, as the danish and french experiences are so much telling us. As the danes are doing obstacles for their inmigration have to be implemented. Then a western cultural induction has to be forced upon those living inside the West: not that they have to reject their religion but they must accept the western, free and helenistic ways of ours. If not the door to deportation must be open. No more mosques in urban populated areas, that encourages them to come to the West, made this difficult.

Second. You fight the war you can win, not the one you can't. Low intensity conflicts, proxy wars, "pacification" wars are not those the west can win. So the conflict MUST escalate to that you can win: high intensity, high tech wars.
Caesar "pacified" both, Spain and Gaul with no more than three legions, however his actions were ruthless. That is why he is now in History a mighty figure whilst Robert McNamara will be forgotten or at least remembered as a loser. The Khan with 100,000 riders did conquered millions! It's a matter of will, strenght and stomach. It's them or us.
Well, I'm German.Therefore I'm maybe to sensitive, but reading your post, I had a deja vu.
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Marc

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Bgile » Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:54 pm

lwd wrote:
Bgile wrote:Exactly how do you propose stopping this mosque from being built, since it's against US law to discriminate against anyone based on their religion?
One way that would have worked if they had thought it might be aproblem ahead of time would have simply been to have zoned the area in such a way that no houses of worship were permitted. Attempting to do it at this point would rightly be seen as discrimanatory. While I'm far from a fan of Islam I still don't see the objections as being very rational.
That's absolutely correct, and it's even possible that there are already other houses of worship in the area.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:13 pm

This is a link related to the islamic custom of "honor killings". To my surprise many of those reported here happened in Canada.... maybe those joyfull westernized guys with which boreatwork ride in the subway or play at the park...

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... llery.html
triple murder of teenager daughters in Kingston, Ontario.... "Canada" Honor Killings of Four Muslim Girls in Canada: "The girls were not allowed to go out alone, for example, neither to the cinema nor to meet friends and they were not able to dress freely".... Aqsa Parvez Canada -- lies in an unmarked grave despite our relentless ongoing efforts to right that terrible wrong.

There are also those killings in Germany: Gulsen P: GERMANY: HONOR KILLING VICTIM'S FACE "BEATEN BEYOND RECOGNITION"

Morsal Obeidi (stabbed to death 23 times by her brother - for "turning away from her family").
If it is me, living in Canada and have a teenage daughter, I will give her a .357 Magnum if she have to ride with boreatwork's pals in the subway... just in case...
Last edited by Karl Heidenreich on Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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