Obama´s mosque

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Karl Heidenreich
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:37 am

I do remember Carter's denial to approve the B-1, the Abrams tank, the MX missile and do remember the fall of Iran... and of Nicaragua that sent a thousands of young central americans to train and to nbe deployed at the borders of Nicaragua to fight off the comunist guerrillas. I remember Carter too well to like Obama. Weak leaders invite agression. It is the pacifist morons that started wars, not the strong leaders.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:25 am

frontkampfer, first of all my name is not Karl and I suspect you are confusing me with Mr Heidenreich, who I know agrees with your point of view.

The point that I was making is that by signing up into a country's armed forces voluntarily then you are voluntarily accepting that you could end up in the front line of an armed conflict. As such, you are under orders, whether or not you agree with the conflict or deployment is irrelevant because you are required to obey orders involving the legal use of lethal force.

With respect to Carter, yes there were cut backs in the US military which were prejudicial to US interests, largely as a follow on consequence of the ignominous US withdrawal from Vietnam which took place under Carters' predecessor, Gerald Ford. It was, in my view, the manner of that withdrawal that was far more damaging to US interests than what Carter did.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by frontkampfer » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:20 pm

RF,

I apologize for my mistake. I know what it means to be under orders as does my son. He will obey orders and do what is expected of him if and when the time comes and I will be proud of him no matter what. The sentiments I expressed where my own and as his father I have that right no matter who occupies the White House.

Yes, Gerald Ford started the cutbacks after Vietnam. The withdrawl was ignominious and it did impact negatively US interests. Carter only made a bad situation worse. With what is going on in Iraq and Afganistan under the current administration it is, to quote the great Yogi Berra, "like deja vu all over again".
"I will not have my ship shot out from under my ass!"

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:17 pm

frontkampfer wrote: With what is going on in Iraq and Afganistan under the current administration it is, to quote the great Yogi Berra, "like deja vu all over again".
No forward planning, no exit strategy. Just a holding operration. Hitler tried that sort of thing and he went on to lose the war he started.

At least with Obama he is practically halfway to facing re-election. Then you need an alternative candidate with a credible policy. And that will need Obama to be challenged in the presidential primaries - by a candidate more credible than Teddy Kennedy was to Carter in 1980. Otherwise the Republicans win - with the same policy as we have now.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:31 am

Well, I was expecting the Obama's speech: "the muslims are not our enemies, no, it's just Al Quaida". I wonder how he explains the Spanish Re Conquering, or the Battle of Lepanto, or the constant threat of Turkey against the Balcans from Middle ages until WWI or the warfare scenario in the Middle East, or what's going in Sudan, Somalia and wherever there is a significant number of muslims then there are problems. Remember Achille Lauro? Remember the Munich Olimpiads? Entebe rescue? Mogadishu rescue? The hordes burning cars a couple of years ago in France? Who do not remember the crowds celebrating the 9/11 attacks in Cairo, Damascus, Teheran, Gaza, etc?
Yeah, it's only a handfull of fanatics, Mr. Obama, just a few that, for argument sake, the "limited" actions of the US have not disbanded at all. Of course, in Obama's position we must understand that he concerns more on the Mosque at Lower Manhantan than the feelings and painfull memories of the victim's families.
Of course he cares more: it will go against his grand daddy's religion after all...
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:37 am

I think a sense of proportion needs to be kept, as hopefully we no longer live in the Dark Ages and we don't need to engage in another Holy War, whatever the religous fruitcakes, be they in the Middle East or the Bible belt, might think.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by boredatwork » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:25 pm

I am Christian.

There are ~150k muslims living in Toronto. I live in the same neighboorhoods as them. I ride the trains and subways with them. I work with them. I play with them.

To be honest YOUR attitude Karl scares me far more than 99% of theirs.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:22 pm

boreatwork:
To be honest YOUR attitude Karl scares me far more than 99% of theirs.
Your experience is different than mine, probably because your country still do not have a majority of muslims, as the one in which I lived for two years. My experience says that these people are members not only from a different culture but from a society that do not accept western freedom and our helenistic heritage and want to impose theirs sooner or later (as they have done thorugh History).

Of course, if you come, like me, to accept that then you have to accept that a global conflict is around the corner and, that, scares a lot of people. Churchill's warning during the mid and late 30ies also scared a lot of people that use to think that the "nazis" were just a bunch of thugs that will become a footnote in History... only to become the "major" conflict in our contemporary History.

There have been major public figures that have been raising warning with this issue, like italian writer (already departed us) Oriana Fallaci or Mark Steyn (author of the book "Americca Alone", who dedicate some pages of his book to Canada). Now we have this new book published in Germany and the concerns of sharia and other islamic stuff in Belgium or France. Let's remember the intolerance that killed Dutch filmaker Theo Van Gogh... remember Salman Rushdie's and so many other examples.

But, boreatwork, in this particular case I do not have to make further my case, we just need to wait for the islamic onslaught that is to come. I hope is not your neighborhood the next one in flames.

Regards,
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:32 pm

Boreatwork:
To be honest YOUR attitude Karl scares me far more than 99% of theirs
Why? Have you seen any Costa Ricans that are also German Battleship fans taking hostage four jet liners and using them to hit and destroy, let's say, some Twin Towers at New York or the Pentagon at Washington? I have seen islamic people doing precisely that... and then negating the Holocaust whilst trying to manufacture an atomic bomb... :negative:
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:31 pm

A very good friend sent me this and has EVERYTHING to do with the current thread, despite the fact it is set in Denmark, but it mentions Canada:


This could very well happen here on our Continent...

Susan MacAllen, a Canadian citizen, is a contributing editor for (FamilySecurityMatters.org)

By Susan MacAllen

The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens. It was proud of its
new brand of socialist liberalism one in development since the conservatives had lost power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to
struggle to survive, where one ultimately could count upon the state as in, perhaps, no other western nation at the time.

The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking, progressive and infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted
low crime rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a history of humanitarianism.

Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies - it offered the best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare
payments from first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and education. It was determined to set a world example for
inclusiveness and multiculturalism. How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series of political cartoons in a newspaper would
spark violence that would leave dozens dead in the streets - all because its commitment to multiculturalism would come back to bite?

By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious. Years
of immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim leadership became more vocal about what they considered the
decadence of Denmark 's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as
incompatible with their long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, inequality for women, intolerance for other
ethnic groups, and a deep pride in Danish heritage and history.

An article by Daniel Pipes and Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted, accurately, that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would
explode. In the article they reported:

Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.'

'Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially
combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other
crimes.'

'Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that
only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.'

'Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him,
sometimes on pain of death - are one problem.'

'Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark 's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-
remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.'

It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws.

An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries and Canada: some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the Muslim faith
have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also threatened and harassed openly by Muslim
leaders in Denmark, a country where once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews by night to Sweden
- before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish friend Elsa - who, as a teenager, had dreaded crossing the street to the bakery every
morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I wonder what she would say today.

In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years - one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal
unfettered immigration. Today, Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in Europe . (Its effort to protect itself has been met with
accusations of 'racism' by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle to right the social problems wrought by years
of too-lax immigration.)

If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language classes. You must pass a test on Denmark 's history, culture, and a
Danish language test.

You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship.

You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting. If you wish to bring a spouse into Denmark , you must both be over 24 years
of age, and you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to Denmark with you.

You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen . Although your children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language
schools in Denmark , they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in ways that past immigrants weren't.

In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish
welfare system, and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had calculated that if immigration from Third World countries
were blocked, 75 percent of the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare system in coming decades would be unnecessary. In other words, the
welfare system, as it existed, was being exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the government. 'We are simply
forced to adopt a new policy on immigration.'

'The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now,' he
said.

A large thorn in the side of Denmark 's imams is the Minister of Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshoj. She makes no bones about the
new policy toward immigration, 'The number of foreigners coming to the country makes a difference,' Hvilshoj says, 'There is an inverse
correlation between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that come.' And on Muslim immigrants needing to
demonstrate a willingness to blend in, 'In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different cultures and religions. Some values,
however, are more important than others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, and freedom of speech.'

Hvilshoj has paid a price for her show of backbone. Perhaps to test her resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman
Abu Laban, demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that
the family's thirst for revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshoj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the
payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshoj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done
in Denmark.

The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she
and her family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where
such murderous violence was once so scarce.

Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened. Many believe that what happens in the next decade will determine
whether Denmark survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil
war with supporters of Sharia law.

And meanwhile, Canadians clamor for stricter immigration policies, and demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants
to live on the public dole. As we in Canada look at the enclaves of Muslims amongst us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare
live on our taxes, yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in our legal system, obey our laws, speak our
language, appreciate our history. We would do well to look to Denmark , and say a prayer for her future and for our own.

If you agree this article has value, then please pass it on.


When the Power of Love Overcomes the Love of Power,,,, The World will know PEACE...
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by boredatwork » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:58 pm

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Boreatwork:
To be honest YOUR attitude Karl scares me far more than 99% of theirs
Why? Have you seen any Costa Ricans that are also German Battleship fans taking hostage four jet liners and using them to hit and destroy, let's say, some Twin Towers at New York or the Pentagon at Washington?
You want to know why you scare me Karl? Because you rant using one sided arguments as "evidence" to support your own moral judgement that Muslim CULTURE AS A WHOLE is uncivilized, violent and evil and therefore that muslims AS A WHOLE should be treated as the enemy.

Being Muslim doesn't automatically make one evil anymore than being christian makes one good. Nor nationality. Nor skin colour. Nor political affiliation. Nor gender. Nor musical tastes. For every argument you use as evidence that Muslims are "evil" I can present similar Christian examples. (or ANY other culture.)

I wonder how he explains the Spanish Re Conquering, or the Battle of Lepanto, or the constant threat of Turkey against the Balcans from Middle ages until WWI or the warfare scenario in the Middle East, or what's going in Sudan, Somalia and wherever there is a significant number of muslims then there are problems. Remember Achille Lauro? Remember the Munich Olimpiads? Entebe rescue? Mogadishu rescue? The hordes burning cars a couple of years ago in France? Who do not remember the crowds celebrating the 9/11 attacks in Cairo, Damascus, Teheran, Gaza, etc?
How do you explain the Japanese? The Germans? The Civil War? The War of the Roses? The 100 year War? The spannish Armada? Napolean? Oklahoma City? The British Empire? The French in Indochina? The IRA? The North American Indian Wars? The Drug Lords of Mexico and Columbia? Cambodia? Apartheid? The Athenians? The Persians? The Egyptian Enslavement of the Jews? The Romans? The Spannish American War? The War of 1812? The occupation of the Phillipines? The Sino-Japanese conflict? The Angolan Civil War? The Sacking of Orthodox Constantinople by crusaders? The Rwandan genocide? The Scottish Invasion of Ireland? The Mongol invasions? The multitude of wars between the South American states? The Falklands War? The Polish Civil War? The Aztecs? The War of Spannish Succession? The Scots and the English? The Afro-American Slave Trade? The area bombing of whole cities? The Tianeman Square Massacre? The Tokyo Subway attacks? The Jewish Terrorist bombing the King David hotel? The Spannish Iquisition? The Pogroms? The Massacre at Glencoe? And the Millions of other wars, atrocities, and terrorist events that have had NOTHING to do with Muslims?
let´s see if they stop killing by throwing stones adulter women or mutilating them, let`s see them acting in a civilized way
Versus those oh so civilized Catholic priests showing the alter boys a good time? Or the millions of christian women raped by good christian men in Africa? (Not to mention thousands burnt at the stake as witches) Or the hundreds of thousands of SE asian christian children sold into the sex trade to christians, by christians? I'm glad we christians are so civilized!
and then negating the Holocaust whilst trying to manufacture an atomic bomb
You speak of Muslims denying the holocaust? WHO ACTUALLY PERPETRATED THE HOLOCAUST TO BEGIN WITH? Nominally Christian Germans.

You speak of Muslims developing an atomic bomb? Again who is the only nation (so far) to have used an actual atomic bomb?
and want to impose theirs sooner or later (as they have done thorugh History).
Versus those live and let live Christian European Colonists who embraced native culture? *rolls eyes*




I don't deny the tradgedy of 9/11 and hope there's a special place in hell for Osama and the other jihadist to burn.

But I don't automatically condem an entire culture based on the actions of it's fanatical fringes.

Or would you have me hate all germans and the "warlike german culture" because half a dozen of my relatives were killed or injured by GERMANS during 2 world wars?

Or Irish Catholics because while on family vacation in London in 1990 I was closer to an Irish bomb then I've ever been to a Muslim one?
Last edited by boredatwork on Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by boredatwork » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:45 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote: Of course, if you come, like me, to accept that then you have to accept that a global conflict is around the corner and, that, scares a lot of people. Churchill's warning during the mid and late 30ies also scared a lot of people that use to think that the "nazis" were just a bunch of thugs that will become a footnote in History... only to become the "major" conflict in our contemporary History.
The difference is Churchill wasn't condeming the entire German people for the actions of the minority that lead them.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:27 am

Boreatwork:

For being such an inteligent and educated person you seem too naive in your appreciation of this problem. As I wrote first I could rest my case and just wait, which is why I posted the article, because it is written in a much better way that I can express my own ideas. However it seems that you choose to ignore and avoid it and ram against my position. Fair enough.
You want to know why you scare me Karl? Because you rant using one sided arguments as "evidence" to support your own moral judgement that Muslim CULTURE AS A WHOLE is uncivilized, violent and evil and therefore that muslims AS A WHOLE should be treated as the enemy.

Being Muslim doesn't automatically make one evil anymore than being christian makes one good. Nor nationality. Nor skin colour. Nor political affiliation. Nor gender. Nor musical tastes. For every argument you use as evidence that Muslims are "evil" I can present similar Christian examples. (or ANY other culture.)
You are correct: not all the islamic people are violent and ruthless, I know very good, funny and kind people that are muslim. The problem is that huge numbers, maybe a great majority in certain countries and important groups that live in the western countries are loyal or at least sympathses with the terrorists and share their aims. A group that is growing.

It will come the time when will come to them or us. I don't like that, but still there is. That is why I wrote that admiting that there is a problem with these people is so scary, because when you realize it is that way, then you realize that it is not going to end in a pretty way.
How do you explain the Japanese? The Germans? The Civil War? The War of the Roses? The 100 year War? The spannish Armada? Napolean? Oklahoma City? The British Empire? The French in Indochina? The IRA? The North American Indian Wars? The Drug Lords of Mexico and Columbia? Cambodia? Apartheid? The Athenians? The Persians? The Egyptian Enslavement of the Jews? The Romans? The Spannish American War? The War of 1812? The occupation of the Phillipines? The Sino-Japanese conflict? The Angolan Civil War? The Sacking of Orthodox Constantinople by crusaders? The Rwandan genocide? The Scottish Invasion of Ireland? The Mongol invasions? The multitude of wars between the South American states? The Falklands War? The Polish Civil War? The Aztecs? The War of Spannish Succession? The Scots and the English? The Afro-American Slave Trade? The area bombing of whole cities? The Tianeman Square Massacre? The Tokyo Subway attacks? The Jewish Terrorist bombing the King David hotel? The Spannish Iquisition? The Pogroms? The Massacre at Glencoe? And the Millions of other wars, atrocities, and terrorist events that have had NOTHING to do with Muslims?
Let's see... the Japanese? Yeah, they had their time of violence but after they were defeated they stop being a threat, as well as the Germans, or the French, or the Spanish. Since the turn of the XX Century I do not believe we have seen an Spanish Inqusitioner with a fleet trying to invade and subdue England. Conflict is inherent to human behaivor and there have been all those conflicts you mention. However the constant effort of Islam to advance and "convert" the world to their faith is just that: constant. Since Day One when Mohammed started his military campaing (in the Gospels I do not see Christ commanding Peter to raise an army, but Allah asks precisely that to the Profet). Today we can look that there are many places, non muslim, with military or armed conflicts... but I can guarantee you that wherever there is a significant muslim group there is, or there is the potential of, a big problem: Sudan, the Balcans, Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, India, Ceylon, Turkey, etc. etc. The only coup d' etat that was attempted in Trinidad and Tobago was from a muslim group, by the way.
Versus those oh so civilized Catholic priests showing the alter boys a good time? Or the millions of christian women raped by good christian men in Africa? (Not to mention thousands burnt at the stake as witches) Or the hundreds of thousands of SE asian christian children sold into the sex trade to christians, by christians? I'm glad we christians are so civilized!
Our State of Right, heritage of our Greek and Roman forefathers, iis dealing with things like that. The Church always reckon this problems as wrong which is why they hide them, and when exposed had no other alternative that try to do damage control. But the stoning of a woman by the Islamists is not reckon, today in the XXI Century, as bad (maybe not a good political move, but not incorrect). The Church is paying billions for the abuses (and losing followers, as I) but the muslims are not ashamed of their laws, why would they? : Allah gave them to Mohammed directly... with order to spread them to the world.
You speak of Muslims denying the holocaust? WHO ACTUALLY PERPETRATED THE HOLOCAUST TO BEGIN WITH? Nominally Christian Germans.
You speak of Muslims developing an atomic bomb? Again who is the only nation (so far) to have used an actual atomic bomb?
So, you equate Germans with Nazis? Because those that perpretated the Holocaust where nazis. And nazis where not very Christian at all. I think that Himmler wa trying to impose Wotan and Thor as "natural" deities for the nazis, more suitable than a forgiving Jesus.
Atomic Bombs? Yeah, the US used them against the Japanese. When the Vietnam War was going sour, do they use them to erase Ho Chi Ming? Or do the US used them against Cuba or USSR? Do the USSR used them against the Afgans or against Canada? I don't think so. On the other hand we have Iran's president saying, basically, that the Holocaust never happened (and that the nazis were a merry bunch), that Israel do not have a RIGHT to exist and that is Islam's aim to destroy it (literally said) and they have a nuclear program. Please: 2 + 2 = 4.
But I don't automatically condem an entire culture based on the actions of it's fanatical fringes.
Don't you remember the videos of Gaza's citizens cheering the 9/11 attempts? Or the people in Cairo or Islamabad? Dancing and singing? I do. That is what I remember the best. The same mistake Bush and Obama did: afraid to have a global conflict now they choose to ignore it and put the blame in a small group... like saying in WWII: "We will fight the nazi party but will not attack Germany. So we fight the U Boats but will not bomb Berlin... we will land in France but when we reach the border we stop..." By the way, that's how the US lost Vietnam...
Or would you have me hate all germans and the "warlike german culture" because half a dozen of my relatives were killed or injured by GERMANS during 2 world wars?
I never brought this up before, I think. But one of my dad's aunts died during the German occupation of Norway... starved. Another of my norwegians ancester used to fly a Spitfire until it was killed by the Germans, and so on. But, as you see, I don't hate them. Neither the Japanese that an uncle of mine use to kill at Saipan. Nor I really hate the communists in Central America, which I had to face in the 80ies. I am not saying we must hate muslims because of what they did, but to deal with them for what they are doing right now, and will do tomorrow morning.
Or Irish Catholics because while on family vacation in London in 1990 I was closer to an Irish bomb then I've ever been to a Muslim one?
Since August 2000 to September 2001 I visited the South Tower of the WTC five times. I loved to go there and used to show it to anyone that was visiting NY. I have several photographs just months before the attacks. When I saw the people jumping (have you forgot them?) trying to avoid the flames I was thinking: "It could have been me with someone I care about..."

As far as I know IRA stopped being a threat, as the FMLN in El Salvador stopped being a threat (they are in power right now), sooner or later all conflicts dies... except one conflict that started in the Middle Ages and is still raging.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by Bgile » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:02 am

What you are asking is that we deny our constitution in order to discriminate against Moslems. The day that happens, our country will no longer exist as it is, and the enemy has won.

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Re: Obama´s mosque

Post by RF » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:38 am

I think that what is coming out of all this is that mankind has not really progressed into the twenty first century. We are still being held back by those anachronisms from the Dark Ages, religion.

Until we consign religion - all of it - into the dustbin of history there can never be any chance of any peace in the world. The truth is that the religous extremes feed from each other and use science and technology for their own ends, in spite of the fact that science and technology, indeed the whole Enlightenment, would not exist if these religions had their way.
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