Shipborne aircraft - Walrus and Arado AR196 - Lost Opportunities?

[Michael L]

Greetings fellow Members.

I have always wondered about how little use there was by either the German or British 'Commanders' of their shipborne aircraft/floatplanes.
Bismarck is supposed to have carried four Arado AR196, and Prinz Eugen three.
KGV and PoW were capable of carrying four Walrus each, Norfolk, Suffolk and Dorsetshire two Walrus each, Sheffield and Edinburgh two Walrus each.
Sure, the weather was sometimes rough, and there was a risk associated with slowing down to recover an aircraft and crew. But it was War, and there are always going to be risks. The launch of aircraft off the two carriers (Victorious and Ark Royal) in very poor weather shows that the British were prepared to risk aircraft. Why not their shipborne Walrus floatplanes?
Apart from PoW looking at launching and KGV considering and dismissing the idea, there appears to be no other thought given to using their floatplanes.
The reconnaissance potential that a launched Arado AR196 could have given the Germans, and the search potential that Walrus aircraft could have given the British, appear to have been opportunities lost.
In his Despatch/Report on the Sinking of the Bismarck, 5 July 1941, Admiral Tovey arguably admits to an opportunity lost, as following:

Consideration was given to flying off the Walrus from KING GEORGE V to search the perimeter astern of the ship and so cover a south-easterly course of the enemy; but the swell was such that the sacrifice of the aircraft would almost certainly result, and I did not wish to expose KING GEORGE V to U-boat attack whilst picking up the crew. Subsequent analysis shows that such a search might possibly have located the BISMARCK.

So, was it just bad luck with the weather, or was it poor judgement of Commanders that saw no use of floatplanes by either of the combatants?

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.
Kind regards,
Michael L.

[dunmunro]

Greetings fellow Members.

I have always wondered about how little use there was by either the German or British 'Commanders' of their shipborne aircraft/floatplanes.
Bismarck is supposed to have carried four Arado AR196, and Prinz Eugen three.
KGV and PoW were capable of carrying four Walrus each, Norfolk, Suffolk and Dorsetshire two Walrus each, Sheffield and Edinburgh two Walrus each.
Sure, the weather was sometimes rough, and there was a risk associated with slowing down to recover an aircraft and crew. But it was War, and there are always going to be risks. The launch of aircraft off the two carriers (Victorious and Ark Royal) in very poor weather shows that the British were prepared to risk aircraft. Why not their shipborne Walrus floatplanes?
Apart from PoW looking at launching and KGV considering and dismissing the idea, there appears to be no other thought given to using their floatplanes.
The reconnaissance potential that a launched Arado AR196 could have given the Germans, and the search potential that Walrus aircraft could have given the British, appear to have been opportunities lost.
In his Despatch/Report on the Sinking of the Bismarck, 5 July 1941, Admiral Tovey arguably admits to an opportunity lost, as following:

Consideration was given to flying off the Walrus from KING GEORGE V to search the perimeter astern of the ship and so cover a south-easterly course of the enemy; but the swell was such that the sacrifice of the aircraft would almost certainly result, and I did not wish to expose KING GEORGE V to U-boat attack whilst picking up the crew. Subsequent analysis shows that such a search might possibly have located the BISMARCK.

So, was it just bad luck with the weather, or was it poor judgement of Commanders that saw no use of floatplanes by either of the combatants?

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.
Kind regards,
Michael L.

PoW was about to launch her Walrus when it was fatally damaged by splinters from KM hits:

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/reference/off ... #P391Leach

PoW's Walrus could have flown to Iceland in the event that it lost touch with PoW or PoW could not slow long enough to recover it.

Given the weather conditions there was a high probability that a Walrus or Arado aircraft would lose touch with it's parent ship and the crew would be killed. Both the RN and KM were reluctant to order suicide missions. Bismarck did try to launch it's Arado when the ship moved close enough to France, but it was discovered that POW's 3rd 14in hit, which smashed a boat had also sent splinters into the Catapult mechanism.

[Steve Crandell]

It has always amazed me that Bismarck's aviation department didn't inspect the catapult thoroughly after the boat nearby was wrecked. It just seems like common sense to test that system, which might be crucial later. Most things like that could have been repaired. Very odd, IMO.

[dunmunro]

Greetings fellow Members.

I have always wondered about how little use there was by either the German or British 'Commanders' of their shipborne aircraft/floatplanes.
Bismarck is supposed to have carried four Arado AR196, and Prinz Eugen three.
KGV and PoW were capable of carrying four Walrus each, Norfolk, Suffolk and Dorsetshire two Walrus each, Sheffield and Edinburgh two Walrus each.
Sure, the weather was sometimes rough, and there was a risk associated with slowing down to recover an aircraft and crew. But it was War, and there are always going to be risks. The launch of aircraft off the two carriers (Victorious and Ark Royal) in very poor weather shows that the British were prepared to risk aircraft. Why not their shipborne Walrus floatplanes?
Apart from PoW looking at launching and KGV considering and dismissing the idea, there appears to be no other thought given to using their floatplanes.
The reconnaissance potential that a launched Arado AR196 could have given the Germans, and the search potential that Walrus aircraft could have given the British, appear to have been opportunities lost.
In his Despatch/Report on the Sinking of the Bismarck, 5 July 1941, Admiral Tovey arguably admits to an opportunity lost, as following:

Consideration was given to flying off the Walrus from KING GEORGE V to search the perimeter astern of the ship and so cover a south-easterly course of the enemy; but the swell was such that the sacrifice of the aircraft would almost certainly result, and I did not wish to expose KING GEORGE V to U-boat attack whilst picking up the crew. Subsequent analysis shows that such a search might possibly have located the BISMARCK.

So, was it just bad luck with the weather, or was it poor judgement of Commanders that saw no use of floatplanes by either of the combatants?

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.
Kind regards,
Michael L.

PoW was about to launch her Walrus when it was fatally damaged by splinters from KM hits:

http://www.hmshood.org.uk/reference/off ... #P391Leach

PoW's Walrus could have flown to Iceland in the event that it lost touch with PoW or PoW could not slow long enough to recover it.

Given the weather conditions there was a high probability that a Walrus or Arado aircraft would lose touch with it's parent ship and the crew would be killed. Both the RN and KM were reluctant to order suicide missions. Bismarck did try to launch it's Arado when the ship moved close enough to France, but it was discovered that POW's 3rd 14in hit, which smashed a boat had also sent splinters into the Catapult mechanism.

Victorious sent out 6 Fulmars to shadow Bismarck, but 2 of these got lost and had to ditch. One crew was lost and one, rather miraculously survived when they spotted an empty, but provisioned lifeboat, just as they were running out of fuel.

The Fulmars and Walrus aircraft did not carry ASV radar and ASV was instrumental for the Swordfish recon aircraft flown from Ark Royal, in finding Bismarck:

http://www.kbismarck.com/article2.html

[Michael L]

Regarding the PoW's Walrus.
It is my understanding that there were two attempts to launch it's Walrus.
First attempt:

"Prince of Wales" Walrus was now ready for catapulting and, as Iceland was out of her range if more than half an hour's useful work was to be carried out, the pilot was given instructions to land alongside a destroyer when endurance was up. It was intended to fly off to port altering course to starboard as necessary. B.C.1 was informed accordingly. However, visibility deteriorated rapidly from about 0045, and as there seemed little likelihood of improvement and action was expected shortly, it was decided to de-fuel aircraft and stow it in the hanger. This was started at 0140 and B.C.1 informed.

I note with interest that the recovery plan was for the Walrus to land alongside a destroyer. As destroyers were not 'equipped' to operate floatplanes, I am guessing that the aircraft's crew would have been recovered, and the floatplane 'sacrificed'.
Second attempt:

Enemy was considered to be 20 miles to the northwest at 0400. Visibility continued to improve and by 0430 was about 12 miles. Consequently orders were given to refuel the aircraft. Owing to delays, principally on account of water in the fuel, aircraft was not ready until after fire had been opened on the enemy and it was damaged by shell splinters before it could be flown off. As the petrol constituted a danger, the aircraft was jettisoned into the sea.

Bad luck that the fuel was contaminated. Otherwise it would have been launched. And presumably landed alongside a destroyer later on.'

I concede that this is a positive case (possibly the only case) of trying to employ a shipboard floatplane. But why didn’t PoW launch one of it’s other Walrus floatplanes later on – it is supposed to have had four. Especially when contact was lost with the Bismarck?
For that matter, why didn't Norfolk or Suffolk launch one of their Walrus floatplanes?
Once contact was lost I would have expect that every option for expanding the search area would/should have been explored.
Kind regards,
Michael L.

[Michael L]

Regarding the Bismarck's Arado AR196.
I also found it unusual that the damage to the catapult had not been identified earlier. But, in some ways this highlights my assertion that the German Commanders were showing poor judgement regarding the potential use of their floatplane. That it, the Bismarck only looked to use it's Arado AR196 toward the end, as a way of flying off the ship's War Records. No thought given to using it earlier in a scouting/reconnaissance role.
Also, the catapult was one of two ways to launch the floatplane. They still could have used a ship’s crane to lift the Arado AR196 and placed it on the water, in order for it to take-off from the water. Why didn’t they do that?
Kind regards,
Michael L.

[Michael L]

I also forgot to mention that HMS Rodney was equipped to carry two Walrus floatplanes, and HMS Repulse had at least one Walrus.
When the search was happening for the Bismarck between 3 am on 25 May (contact lost) and 10:30 am on 26 May (contact regained) I find it surprising that none of the British ships with Walrus floatplanes launched their aircraft to help with the search.
For example: HMS Rodney could have launched a Walrus, which could have landed alongside one of it’s accompanying destroyers – HMS Tartar, Mashona or Somali. And, as a 6in Cruiser, whose job it is to scout out and shadow the enemy (which HMS Sheffield did), I am also surprised that HMS Edinburgh did not launch one of it’s Walrus floatplanes.
As Admiral Tovey notes in his Despatch/Report:

51. The track of the BISMARCK as drawn on the attached strategical plot is probably reasonably accurate. It shows how narrowly she avoided contact with the various British forces during her run east. She started by crossing about 100 miles astern of KING GEORGE V at 0800 on 25th May and then passed about 50 miles from RODNEY and 45 miles from EDINBURGH.

Had a British Commander (Captain) been more 'bold' the Bismarck may have been identified earlier.
Bad weather, or poor judgement?

[Michael L]

Regarding KGV's Walrus.
Please note the following entries on the 'Naval History' website:
KGV Ship's page. https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chron ... orge_V.htm

11 March 1941.
During her time at Scapa KING GEORGE V embarked two Walrus amphibians equipped with ASV 11N radar. These were the first naval front line aircraft to be fitted with radar.
28 March 1941.
After detaching, KING GEORGE V sailed north towards Iceland and launched her Walrus aircraft. The aircraft were to wait at Iceland to be embarked by NORFOLK.

So, there may have been a Walrus with ASV with KGV and/or Norfolk.
That neither ship chose to launch it's Walrus appears to me to have been poor judgment by their respective Commanders.

[dunmunro]

Regarding the Bismarck's Arado AR196.
I also found it unusual that the damage to the catapult had not been identified earlier. But, in some ways this highlights my assertion that the German Commanders were showing poor judgement regarding the potential use of their floatplane. That it, the Bismarck only looked to use it's Arado AR196 toward the end, as a way of flying off the ship's War Records. No thought given to using it earlier in a scouting/reconnaissance role.
Also, the catapult was one of two ways to launch the floatplane. They still could have used a ship’s crane to lift the Arado AR196 and placed it on the water, in order for it to take-off from the water. Why didn’t they do that?
Kind regards,
Michael L.

Floatplanes like the Arado need relatively calm seas to TO and land (the Walrus was better in that regard) and there was near continuous poor weather during the entire episode. As I said before the RN and KM were reluctant to order suicide missions. In any event the RN had efficient AW radar (type 79, 279 and 281) on many of the ships involved and the presence of an Arado was likely to actually aid the RN in finding Bismarck, since its course could have been tracked by radar (The KM may not have known that). Additionally, the KM knew that at least one carrier was in the vicinity after the initial Swordfish attack, so that would have been an additional hazard. Once Bismarck turned toward France there was nothing that the Arados could usefully contribute, since what was behind Bismarck was of no concern and her fuel state seems to have dictated her course towards France at her best possible speed.

It's really important to understand the situation before making any judgements. The fact that few, if any, catapult aircraft were flown by either side (PE had AR196s as well) gives us a good indication that the weather and the need for continuous high speeds made the use of catapult recon aircraft very hazardous for the aircraft and aircrew.

[Michael L]

Regarding the Bismarck's Arado AR196.
I acknowledge that the weather was far from ideal for floatplane operations. Admiral Tovey reported the following:

ACTION OF 27TH MAY.
Weather: Wind—north-west, force 8.* (Fresh gale, 34-40 m.p.h.)
Weather—overcast; rain squalls.
Visibility—12-13 miles.
Sea and swell—45.
Sunrise—0722.

While I appreciate that the RN or KM “were reluctant to order suicide missions”, under the circumstances, facing imminent defeat, I still find it puzzling that Bismarck did not try and launch her Arado AR196 by lowering it into the sea. At the time 26/27 May, Bismarck was around 300 nautical miles (560 km; 350 mi) from Brest. The range of the Arado AR196 was 580 nautical miles (1,080 km; 670 mi).

At 23:40 on 26 May, Admiral Lütjens sent the signal "Ship unmanoeuvrable. We will fight to the last shell. Long live the Führer." Bismarck no longer needed to maintain ‘continuous high speed’. Around 06:00, Lütjens ordered an Arado 196 float plane launched to the French coast. Only then was it discovered that the aircraft catapult had been rendered inoperative. Bismarck’s final battle was still over two and a half hours away. The decision was made to dump the Arado AR196 overboard, instead of lowering it and giving the pilot a chance to take off. I do not believe this decision was made because of a reluctance to order the pilot to go on a 'suicide mission'. It seems to me that the decision not to try was made by someone who had already resigned themself to defeat.

It's better to have tried and failed than to live life wondering what would've happened if I had tried - Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809-92).

[dunmunro]

Regarding the Bismarck's Arado AR196.
I acknowledge that the weather was far from ideal for floatplane operations. Admiral Tovey reported the following:

ACTION OF 27TH MAY.
Weather: Wind—north-west, force 8.* (Fresh gale, 34-40 m.p.h.)
Weather—overcast; rain squalls.
Visibility—12-13 miles.
Sea and swell—45.
Sunrise—0722.

While I appreciate that the RN or KM “were reluctant to order suicide missions”, under the circumstances, facing imminent defeat, I still find it puzzling that Bismarck did not try and launch her Arado AR196 by lowering it into the sea. At the time 26/27 May, Bismarck was around 300 nautical miles (560 km; 350 mi) from Brest. The range of the Arado AR196 was 580 nautical miles (1,080 km; 670 mi).

At 23:40 on 26 May, Admiral Lütjens sent the signal "Ship unmanoeuvrable. We will fight to the last shell. Long live the Führer." Bismarck no longer needed to maintain ‘continuous high speed’. Around 06:00, Lütjens ordered an Arado 196 float plane launched to the French coast. Only then was it discovered that the aircraft catapult had been rendered inoperative. Bismarck’s final battle was still over two and a half hours away. The decision was made to dump the Arado AR196 overboard, instead of lowering it and giving the pilot a chance to take off. I do not believe this decision was made because of a reluctance to order the pilot to go on a 'suicide mission'. It seems to me that the decision not to try was made by someone who had already resigned themself to defeat.

It's better to have tried and failed than to live life wondering what would've happened if I had tried - Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809-92).

Bismarck's position at the time of sinking was: " she sank at 1037 [27 May] at position 48° 09'N ., 16° 07'W." which is approximately 450nm from Brest, so that at 0600, given the winds, the Arado would have been catapulted from it's extreme range.

Trying to lower a floatplane into the sea in a Force 8 gale would have been certain suicide. Additionally, it would have been extremely difficult for Bismarck to even try and manoeuvre onto a course that would have maximized the probability of success.

[dunmunro]

Actually, two Fulmars from Victorious were lost, with one crew being recovered from their inflatable life raft, after 36 hours in the sea, and two of her Swordfish were also lost on recon missions, with one crew finding the aforementioned lifeboat, and being recovered after 8 days at sea.

[wadinga]

Hello All,

As has been observed, the weather conditions during the Chase were extremely poor and it would have been almost certain that an aircraft launched would be destroyed on attempting to land on the sea for recovery. The Arado design in particular suffered from engine failures due to cylinder cracking when doused in seawater. In the prevailing visibility and weather conditions of the North Atlantic, not only was there the element of a "Suicide Mission" for the crew but always a concern that by expending an aircraft too early in the operation a better opportunity later on might be missed. The Germans , in particular, were supposed to go hunting convoys, when the aircraft might prove vital. The departure of Lutjens' force was delayed by problems with Bismarck's cranes, so the air element was considered vital.

Although ships may have had nominal outfits of seaplanes it was not always the case they had embarked the full outfit, or that all were actually serviceable even if they were aboard.

Suffolk's only Walrus was rendered unserviceable when near gale force winds during a turn damaged the aircraft whilst stowed on the catapult.

By the time Ark Royal launched her deadly strike the bow and stern were rising and falling 60ft, a Swordfish had skittered sideways across her deck when caught by the gale, and the deck landing officer had to be tied down to avoid him going overboard.

Immediately prior to the final action, Bismarck was wallowing beam on to heavy seas and the Baron's book and survivor reports mention waves breaking across the midships turrets. Under such conditions any aircraft suspended from a crane would have swung around helplessly, no matter how many luckless sailors were detailed to steadying lines. The strong likelihood is of the aircraft being smashed to pieces against the ship's superstructure before even reaching the water. It would have been swamped and probably overturned if it did reach the water, and certainly unable to achieve take off speed if it had made it in one piece.

It is indeed surprising as Steve and others have observed that no-one tested the catapult system after Bismarck was hit by Prince of Wales but with the hit being high up off Bismarck's deck on the prow of a boat, it must have seemed unlikely there would be a problem. One of several cock-ups during the Chase, affecting both sides.

Discussions here about Bismarck's gunnery in the final action also frequently fail (IMHO) to consider how bad the weather was and how the rudder damage meant speed was restricted resulting in the vessel being at the mercy of wind and weather. Ships which can maintain course and speed cut through waves and to a certain extent negate their effect provided their speed is not excessive. Any stopped or travelling at low speed vessel rolls and pitches with the sea, and from the Baron's description of Bismarck's permanent list it seems to me there may have been more uncontrolled flooding in the beam compartments, perhaps as a re-opening of the damage caused by Victorious' Swordfish hit.

As for Tovey's "if only" he had used a Walrus to search astern, this kind of ignores the unfortunate fact that due to the navigational cock-up aboard his flagship, (and his stiff necked insistence that only bearings were sent to him and not an estimated enemy position) he was convinced Bismarck was heading for Norway. Talk about being wise after the event. The RAF Catalina search, Somerville's excellent positioning for Force H and eventually Ark Royal's second strike saved his bacon.

Nice to see a sensible and well-argued discussion originated and being followed up.

All the best

wadinga

[Michael L]

My sincere thanks for the follow-up discussion. It has indeed been sensible and well-argued.

Regarding the Bismarck's Arado AR196.
It does appear that it's use, or rather not being used, was determined more by the bad weather than by poor judgment.
Although the Arado AR196 was a superb floatplane, the three-point design of the Walrus (and other like three float seaplanes) gave it better sea handling characteristics for take-off and landing in rougher conditions.

The discussion has shown that it was the problem of getting the Arado AR196 safely over the side of the Bismarck, the inability of Bismarck to manoeuvre and provide some still water, the high winds and waves for take-off, which resulted in the logical conclusion that to try a surface launch would have been 'suicide'.

There appears to be a consensus that it was very puzzling that the damage to Bismarck's catapult was not identified earlier. If it had, then the plan to launch the Arado AR196 via the catapult - carrying the War records, including film of the sinking of HMS Hood - may have succeeded. Although the distance was close to 450nm, this was still within the 580nm range of the floatplane. And the strong north-west wind would have arguable provided a slight tail wind.

The weather played a part in the Battle of the Denmark Strait, with the British then getting the worst of it. In the final encounter the situation was reversed, considerably so, with the Germans getting the worst of it. I would add that Bismarck’s crew were likely fatigue after a difficult night being harassed by Vain’s destroyers.

I would also add that the decisions made by Captain Dalrymple-Hamilton, HMS Rodney, also contributed to saving Admiral Tovey’s ‘bacon’,

Kind regards,
Michael L.

[Michael L]

Returning to the British Walrus.

It appears that HMS Suffolk's Walrus was damaged by wind. Did the ship only have one Walrus onboard?
HMS Norfolk's Walrus was damaged by shellfire splinters. Did the ship only have one?
HMS PoW had one Walrus dumped overboard. Did the ship only have one? I am assuming the PoW had at least another Walrus.
When contact was lost with the Bismarck at 3am 25 May, I still find it puzzling that none of the ships launched a Walrus to help with the search.
PoW was prepared to launch a Walrus in the lead-up to the Battle of the Denmark Strait. Maybe the ship only had the one Walrus (which it dumped overboard)?

Similarly, I am still puzzled that HMS Rodney or HMS Edinburgh did not launch their Walruses during the search phase 25/26 May. Especially HMS Rodney, whose accompanying destroyers could have recovered the floatplane’s crew. The risk taking shown by the two carriers (Victorious and Ark Royal) does not appear to have been paralleled by these two Walrus equipped ships.

Kind regards,
Michael L.