Lutjens signal

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btc
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Lutjens signal

Post by btc »

Hi all,
Im new to this forum, and I am finding the discussion on it is of very high quality.

I am astounded by the fact that Adm. Lutjens sent that 35 minute long message to Group West on 25 May after Norfolk and Suffolk had lost contact.
I am aware that Lutjens incorrectly believed that 1 battleship and 2 cruisers had regained contact with Bismarck, but having his experience, he should have known that the possibility was always there that they had not, after all, there was no evidence of it. Even if the British ships transmitted false broadcasts that he could intercept, there is always the chance of deception in such a situation.
I am wondering what must have been going through his mind at the time. Was it the fact that he believed from the beginning of the trip that he would not be returning home again, made him complacent?

In my opinion,as he was making good speed (28kts), despite hits from POW earlier, there was a very good chance Bismarck would have got to France, had Lutjens not made that transmission. Basically, a questionable decision ultimately led to his demise.
Bgile
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Post by Bgile »

I would agree with you. I think he was demoralized by his bad experience with British radar and he made a serious mistake.
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wadinga
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For the Ultimate argument visit and join in

Post by wadinga »

Go to http://www.bismarck-class.dk/board/thre ... r=0&page=1 for the full story

All the Best
wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
Bgile
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Post by Bgile »

OMG Wadinga I was a part of that thread at one time and didn’t realize how incredibly long it was! J I need to read the whole thing. It looks like Vic has lately been retreating from the idea that the whole episode was a clever plot by Lutjens to deceive the British. Somehow I missed the recent posts.

I should “out” myself at this point – I am Steve Crandell on that forum. That is my real name, but when I created my login here it was the first forum of it’s type I had joined and didn’t realize what I was getting into. Anyway, I purchased the Bismarck history on this forum as Bgile and then didn’t want to start a new identity.
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wadinga
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So it was you!

Post by wadinga »

Steve/bgile,

Thanks for the compliment on the recent research and your valuable contributions, but Vic will never retreat. Luckily the debate has never turned as ugly as the Reversed Photo War that has seen the protagonists banned from one or other forum.

I find the electronic and intelligence aspects of the Bismarck chase fascinating and I hate to see the facts twisted to suit an "off the wall" theory, which some might be mislead into believing.
I also think the co-operative aspect of enthusiasts discussing points together might bring useful new insights.

All the Best
wadinga
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
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RF
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Re: Lutjens signal

Post by RF »

btc wrote:Hi all,


I am astounded by the fact that Adm. Lutjens sent that 35 minute long message to Group West on 25 May after Norfolk and Suffolk had lost contact.
I am aware that Lutjens incorrectly believed that 1 battleship and 2 cruisers had regained contact with Bismarck, but having his experience, he should have known that the possibility was always there that they had not, after all, there was no evidence of it. Even if the British ships transmitted false broadcasts that he could intercept, there is always the chance of deception in such a situation.
I am wondering what must have been going through his mind at the time. Was it the fact that he believed from the beginning of the trip that he would not be returning home again, made him complacent?

In my opinion,as he was making good speed (28kts), despite hits from POW earlier, there was a very good chance Bismarck would have got to France, had Lutjens not made that transmission.
I am also surprised at the breach in radio silence, it wasn't done on Operation Berlin. I suppose believing the British to be still in contact he thought he had nothing to lose. But again it points to the question, was he the right man for the job?
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rclark
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Hitler's Navy or Germany's Navy

Post by rclark »

What did Hitler really think of the German navy prior to WW2 and after the war started. His WW1 experience didn't really bring him close to the Navy so was he happy to spend the money to make the bigger battleships like the Bismark or expand the U-Boat program which was more successfull during the early part of the war. I am from Halifax, still live there where there is a deep naval tradition. Bedford Basin is where most of the North Atlantic convoys began. Many U Boats were sited outside of the harbour, never a battleship came close and thats understandable. Did he have alot of confidence in his Naval Staff?
Ron Clark
Sorry, wrong post, should be new topic.
Orville H. Larson
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Re: Hitler's Navy or Germany's Navy

Post by Orville H. Larson »

rclark wrote:What did Hitler really think of the German navy prior to WW2 and after the war started. His WW1 experience didn't really bring him close to the Navy so was he happy to spend the money to make the bigger battleships like the Bismark or expand the U-Boat program which was more successfull during the early part of the war. I am from Halifax, still live there where there is a deep naval tradition. Bedford Basin is where most of the North Atlantic convoys began. Many U Boats were sited outside of the harbour, never a battleship came close and thats understandable. Did he have alot of confidence in his Naval Staff?
Ron Clark
Sorry, wrong post, should be new topic.
Well, my understanding is that Der Fuhrer wasn't much interested in the navy or naval matters. His was a military orientation, not a naval one. In fact, he once said, "On land I am a hero, but at sea I am a coward."
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