Denmark Strait and RN Articles of War

[dunmunro]

Hello everybody,

@ Wadinga,

what "OBSCURED " the AFT Director and made Brooke " BLIND " for 15 seconds ???

BEFORE the Y turret fired in local control ...

DSCN3337 (2).jpg

The answer is into PoW Gunnery report, PoW damage report and can be seen on photo NH 69731 taken 15 seconds after this event.

Bye Antonio

Water. Brooke states that the after director was drenched from a shell splash, and they were cleaning their optics when they were asked to take over.

[dunmunro]

Hello everybody,

@ Dunmunro,

thanks for your fairness my friend, ... this is what makes discussions being really productive.

Just joking with you Duncan, ... I have to tell you that I tried for 10 years to find sometimes different solutions on the way to read the events on this battle, ... and found any ... what one realize after a certain point studying this battle ... is that one event is fixing and reducind the time of the one after ... and they all got "compressed" between 05.52 and 30 seconds when battle started ... and 06.09 when Bismarck ceased fire.
17 minutes that seems to be a very long time,... in reality it is short and moves fast ... and everything happened very, very fast on both sides.

Ok, lets move on the drifting wind that day ... 2 elements I like to share with you as starters are Hunter-Terry description of Hood explosion and what he noticed of the smoke and the analysis of the Bismarck haeavy and secondary artillery salvoes smoke.

Here Hunter-Terry looking at what we can briefly see on the film for 7 seconds, Hood explosion :

At 0600 there was a heavy explosion at the after end of the "Hood", no actual fall of shot was observed at that time. A column of smoke rose above the ship and completely enveloped her. It formed into a mushroom at the top. I thought she had blown up completely but shortly afterwards the smoke cleared sufficiently for me to see her. She was apparently still moving ahead and turning to port. She was down at the stern and listing heavily to port and the after part of the ship appeared to be a mass of twisted framework, as though the plates of the side had been blown out leaving only the frame.

Think about how long it took for a smoke like that ... to drift away, ... from photo Nh69724 ... during the film sequence ... until photo Nh 69731.

Than look at the Bismarck salvoes smoke and count how long it take for her salvo smoke to drift away :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPmkOtSveXY

Than we can make a reasoning on Nh 69731 good quality pic.

Bye Antonio

The smoke doesn't drift away from Bismarck, Bismarck moves away from the smoke, just as PoW and Hood moved away from the smoke allowing Hood to be seen by Hunter-Terry. If PoW began laying a smoke screen at ~0601:30, it should be plainly visible in the photos and it isn't.

[Tom17]

I thought smoke for a screen was made by injecting oil into the burners making a thick heavy smoke which lay on the water.

http://www.world-war.co.uk/destroyers.php3 (scroll down to Gloworm's pic.)

You can clearly see it billowing from the forward funnel.

Alberto's 30 seconds may be a little short to give the smoke time to make an easily visible screen.
Tom

[dunmunro]

This is a crop from an 4x enlarged version of NH69731 :


You can actually make out PoW quite clearly, and you can see that the after director is free of smoke, just as Brooke states.

original:


and here's NH69725:


Compared to NH69731, it has a longer exposure time, and the effect is to lighten the sky and smoke. This supports my contention that NH69731 shows funnel smoke only, while NH69725 shows PoW's smoke screen that began a minute or so after NH69731 was taken, and it would be considerably darker if the exposure levels were the same.

[wadinga]

Hi All,

Yes Antonio it was just water and they were cleaning their binoculars

McMullen's gunnery report said they had major problems talking to the Bridge through wind noise. With everybody dead ,deafened or stunned on the Compass Platform there was no-one to explain why PoW was continuing to turn to port instead of straightening out. The frustrated McMullen was forced to hand over control to Brooke and team as the Main Director came against its stops, and when they didn't start giving instructions to Y turret instantaneously, Aylwin took things out of their hands. The chance to hit back for Hood was taken away from them by this continual course change, with no warning about what was happening. Chaos and confusion ruled. Only then did the smoke screen start as Brooke records.

Making smoke. Battleships are rarely associated with making smoke as screening vessels usually do it. Spraying maximum amounts of fuel oil onto the burners, as Prince of Wales was already doing in an attempt to make maximum speed created clouds of smoke anyway. The funnel hits and damage to the boiler room intakes made the fuel-air-combustion problem worse as well. As has been observed, if PoW did start making a smoke screen to obscure herself at 06:01 it is the world's worse effort, since it obscures nothing.

Here is Leach's Report

A turn of 2 blue at 0555 opened "A" Arcs at "Prince of Wales" ninth salvo. "Hood" had a further 2 blue flying when, at 0600, just after "Bismarck's" 5th salvo, a huge explosion occurred between "Hood's" after funnel and mainmast and she sank in three or four minutes. "Hood" had fired five or six salvos but fall of shot was not seen, possibly because this coincided with firing of "Prince of Wales'" guns.
"Prince of Wales" starboard 5.25" battery was now in action. Course had to be altered to starboard to avoid remains of "Hood"; meanwhile "Bismarck" had shifted main and secondary armament fire quickly and accurately onto "Prince of Wales". A heavy hit was felt almost immediately. And at 0602 compass platform was hit and majority of personnel killed. Navigating Officer was wounded; Commanding Officer unhurt.
The same salvo severed all fire control leads to the port forward H.A. Director and put the starboard forward H.A. Director out of action temporarily jamming it in training. The control officer of the latter ordered all turrets to go into "After Control". This was carried out, but, about the same time a 15" shell burst on the boat deck and seriously upset the starboard after H.A. Director. The crew of this director had already been considerably blasted by "Y" Turret firing on a forward bearing. The 15" shell burst threw the control officer off his feet and broke his telephone lead. By the time he was again through to the H.A.C.P. The target was lost behind smoke astern.
It was considered expedient to break off the action and consolidate the position, and the ship, after being manoeuvred round the remains of "Hood", turned away behind a smoke screen. "Y" Turret fired in local during the turn as smoke blanked the after director.
It now seems probable that the enemy turned away at the same time as "Prince of Wales" and about two enemy salvos were seen short during this period.
The "Prince of Wales" fired 18 main armament salvos. The target was crossed and recrossed and three straddles observed. No hits were seen. True range on opening fire was 25,000 yards. The true range on ceasing fire was 14,500 yards.
The 5.25" opened fire at a range of 18,000 yards but only fired 3 salvos. "Y" Turret's shell ring jammed during the turn away and the turret was out of action until 0825.
(After retiring on a course of about 160 degs. "Prince of Wales" circled to port, steadying up on a course of 250 degs.) And joining "Norfolk" came under orders of C.S.1 who at 0633, stated his intention of keeping in touch with the enemy. The extent of the general damage to the ship was reported to C.S.1. At 0707 C.S.1 ordered "Prince of Wales" to follow at her best speed giving his course 210 degs. Speed 26 knots. Two guns of "Y" Turret were again in action by 0720 and an amplifying report of damage was made to C.S.1.
When the debris on the bridge had been cleared away, damage was found to be less than at first thought and conning, which had been carried out in the upper conning tower, was resumed on the compass platform. Later, at 1007, a more accurate and comprehensive report of damage was made to the Admiralty.
Meanwhile, at 0737 C.S.1 ordered "Prince of Wales" to take station 10 miles on a bearing of 110 degs. In order to support him if the enemy attempted to drive him off. Courses and speeds were as necessary to open out and maintain station.

This is not a time stamped Black Box recording. It is not direct sequential recording. The heavy hit he felt happened before the Compass Platform hit. What was that? The only time 160 and retiring are mentioned is immediately before the circling manouevre around 06.10 to 06.20. That is the retiring Leach is justifying and his guns are pretty useles by that time. then he turns onto a shadowing course and starts to accept orders from Wake-Walker. One of which is position yourself 10 miles on 110 from me which is a long way behind Bismarck, and means action could not be forced unless PoW had a big speed advantage over Bismarck, which it doesn't.

All the best

wadinga

[Tom17]

Dunmunro,
In your crop of #69731 it looks like there are 2 smoke columns. Any idea on the second (Norfolk?)

Why didn't POW make more use of her 5.25's?

[dunmunro]

I thought smoke for a screen was made by injecting oil into the burners making a thick heavy smoke which lay on the water.

http://www.world-war.co.uk/destroyers.php3 (scroll down to Gloworm's pic.)

You can clearly see it billowing from the forward funnel.

Alberto's 30 seconds may be a little short to give the smoke time to make an easily visible screen.
Tom

Yes, that's correct although some ships had dedicated smoke generators.

Here's a film clip that shows a smoke screen being laid in 30-40 knot winds:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/our-navy-in-action
The smoke starts at about 2:45 into the clip.

You can also see that the KGV class would make a lot of smoke under some conditions, as shown at 3:34 in this film:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/new-b ... tleships-1

[dunmunro]

Dunmunro,
In your crop of #69731 it looks like there are 2 smoke columns. Any idea on the second (Norfolk?)

Why didn't POW make more use of her 5.25's?

I only see the smoke from Hood's oil fire and from PoW.

PoW's forward HA directors were out of action because the electrical leads had been severed, and the starboard after director suffered some shock damage, even so, they should have been used more, and the fact that they weren't points to a lack of training.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

sorry guys, Brooke water is stated before and only for himself, water does not OBSCURE, and most important PoW gunnery report officially stated something else, they wrote SMOKE SCREEN several times :

Spreads for elevation are not known, but it is thought that salvoes 17 and 18 were ragged as the ship was under full wheel at the time; the ship was listing heavily and it is known that there was considerable movement on both elevation and training pointers.
The true range on opening was 25,000 yards. The true range on ceasing fire was 14,500 yards.
No hits were observed, but it is likely from results observed that fire was effective between salvoes 5 and 16.
When the Fore Director was wooded DURING the turn AWAY after salvo 18, the main switch in the T.S. was put over to after director. This director was also unable to see the enemy due to the ship's SMOKE SCREEN, and the Officer of "Y" turret, using his own initiative, went into local control and fired three salvoes as he was able to see under the SMOKE.
The fall of shot of these three salvoes is uncertain.
"Y" turrets' shell ring jammed during the turn away and the turret was out of action until 0825, as has been described in Enclosure (III).
7. The 5.25-in. armament opened fire at a range of 18,600 yards. After firing a deflection triple, a 15-in. shell passed through the superstructure supporting the H.A. directors.
The shot caused the director to jam temporarily in training and the Control Officer of the latter ordered all turrets to go into "aft control". This was carried out, but about the same time a 15-in. shell burst on the boat deck and seriously upset the after starboard H.A. director.

Notice that the Fore director was wooded DURING the TURN AWAY ! Just after salvo 18, ... so the first TURN made by PoW was irrefutably the TURN AWAY !

Than we can read again the same event sequence written by Capt Leach at 08.00 that morning :

I decided to break off action and consolidate position and ship.
I therefore turned AWAY firing Y turret in local control on the turn and making smoke.

Closing with Capt Leach own narrative :

It was considered expedient to break off the action and consolidate the position, and the ship, after being manoeuvred round the remains of "Hood", turned away behind a smoke screen. "Y" Turret fired in local DURING the turn as smoke blanked the after director.

@ Dunmunro,

you wrote me I was trusting too much the photos, and now you use 2 poor quality ones to try to tell me that Nh 69731 does not show a smoke screen on the air since 1-2 minutes at least ?
The PoW funnel smoke would have never created something like that so high and so dense, and I mean both the one before that goes backward and connects almost with the smoke pillar left by Hood and the one on top of PoW herself after the semi-circle turn away she made that is very evidently a smoke screen emission and not her funnel usual smoke even if the funnel was holed and damaged.

Here a good view of that smoke, … almost connected with the Hood one

SMOKE_NH69731.jpg (42.98 KiB) Viewed 889 times

Bye Antonio

[dunmunro]

@ Dunmunro,

you wrote me I was trusting too much the photos, and now you use 2 poor quality ones to try to tell me that Nh 69731 does not show a smoke screen on the air since 1-2 minutes at least ?
The PoW funnel smoke would have never created something like that so high and so dense, and I mean both the one before that goes backward and connects almost with the smoke pillar left by Hood and the one on top of PoW herself after the semi-circle turn away she made that is very evidently a smoke screen emission and not her funnel usual smoke even if the funnel was holed and damaged.

Here a good view of that smoke, … almost connected with the Hood one

SMOKE_NH69731.jpg

Bye Antonio

Antonio, here is a composite of Howe "making" smoke from only her forward funnel (probably while doing an overload trial on the forward boilers), the next image is a Dido class cruiser making a smoke screen and the bottom image is a crop from NH69731:


(right click on the image and open it in a new tab to see it all)

Tell me honestly, which of the two upper images most closely resembles the smoke in the bottom image?

A smoke screen as per the centre image would completely obscure PoW from the camera, and would be plainly visible in the image as it would probably obscure the base of Hood's oil fire as well.

Jasper noted that PoW was making a lot of smoke well after Leach would have ordered it stopped, so the balance of the evidence is that PoW is not making a smoke screen in NH69731, just pouring out smoke as per Howe, but with both funnels, while her machinery is producing maximum power, with the additional problem of the damage to the after boiler room fans, resulting in even more smoke than Howe, from the after funnel.

Antonio, we have seen how there are inconsistencies in all the written accounts, so we can't rely on them exclusively, when they contradict other evidence.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,
@ Dunmunro,
surely and always honestly my friend, you and Sean ( Wadinga ) are good friends and we are only exchanging different opinions on a very fair and productive way.
I see your examples and I thanks you for that.

But here my comparison of PoW funnel smoke before and after, I am sure you can easily recognize the huge difference that cannot be caused by a damage on one funnel.
NOTE : On the photo Nh69724 on top, you see 2 salvoes smoke by PoW, one drifting in the wind, and not her funnel smoke that is close to be invisible

PoW_funnel_smoke_comparison.jpg (102.25 KiB) Viewed 868 times

Than I see what you mean about Brooke, but we are comparing a narrative on a recent book with an official battle report written at time of the events by the responsible and the smoke screen statements are very clear and on the matter. There is no comparison as far as reliability of the information between the 2.

Here what the 3 German officers wrote about that smoke on PoW :

FO BUSCH on 1943 book Even the “Prince of Wales” has changed course after transiting the position of the sinking of her flagship, and she has turned hard to port. She shows bow left, then shortly thereafter bow right, and finally her stern, and seeks to flee at high speed. Ours as well as the “Bismarck’s” impacts remain right on target. Only once, during the rapid turning, did ours slip to the left as the white columns rise closely grouped next to the stern of the English battleship. Flames are observed aboard the opponent; he is on fire, and there is densely billowing smoke pouring from the ship’s hull, its funnels conceal the shape of the ship. “He burns and smokes or makes additional black fog!” I call out to the artillery officer. Then we observed the final salvoes from “Bismarck” and from “Prinz Eugen”, exceptionally closely grouped, impact behind the stern of the battleship. It is as if the fist of a giant had struck the water one more time with full force, to proclaim his dire threat and his warning. One perceives from the strange maneuvers of the “Prince of Wales” that the sinking of the flagship and the hits the ship had obtained itself, that someone has lost his head and could not quite figure out how to proceed next. Finally, it was decided to retreat and to rapidly escape from the horribly accurate fire of the “Bismarck”. “Like a bucking and spooked horse!” I say to the lieutenant, and I quickly turn the instrument to the left, where again the column of smoke at the site of the sinking of the “Hood” is recognizable as well as the small smoldering pile of wreckage that lies farther left and silently on the sea.

JASPER battle report Immediately thereafter, the opponent turned hard onto a reciprocal course (PoW turned away and on retreat ). He gave off black smoke and apparently tried to use this to escape from view. In my opinion, this smoke was artificial black fog and did not emanate from a (real) conflagration. The minimum distance at this time point was about 140 hectometers (14.000 meters).

SCHMALENBACH battle report After "Hood's" explosion and loss of forward motion, "King George" steamed between its [wreckage] and the German ships. His appearance was very blurred by thick smoke, so that, as was the case with "Hood", only shells falling short or hits could be observed. Muzzle flashes and flashes from detonating shells were difficult to differentiate. However, I am certain I observed one hit on the ship's aft portside superstructure after it had veered away sharply, perhaps, [due to the ship] rounding off too much (over-steering). I believe that another hit may have lodged in or near the aft stack, a possible explanation for the dense black smoke the ship [generated] while leaving the battlefield. I cannot judge who (Bismarck or Prinz Eugen) made these hits because I had turned (my attention) to the portside heavy flak battery's operations and also because a flying boat was reported during these (crucial) minutes.

As you can read for the German was out of discussion that PoW was turning away leaving the battlefield, with an order to turn to port 160 degrees, and with a smoke screen, and everything was done by 06.04 when Y turret ceased fire.

This of course is my opinion given the evidences.

Bye Antonio

[dunmunro]

This composite compares PoW's funnel smoke from ~601 (from the PE film on youtube) to her funnel smoke at ~0603:30 (from NH69731):



We can see how similar the smoke appears to be, in that it rises as it leaves the funnel, rather than falling immediately as a smokescreen would do and so merge into the surface of the ocean, but as we can see the surface of the ocean is clear in the last image, as the smoke leaves the funnels.

It is my understanding that funnel smoke is quite hot and thus has a tendency to rise, and this is aided by the high velocity of the funnel smoke, but as it cools it will settle back onto the surface of the ocean, just as we see in the bottom image. When a smokescreen is wanted extra oil, but less air, is forced into the boilers and the resulting smoke is very dense, relatively cool, and does not have a high velocity of air to force it to rise as it leaves the funnel.

[dunmunro]

Hello everybody,
@ Dunmunro,
surely and always honestly my friend, you and Sean ( Wadinga ) are good friends and we are only exchanging different opinions on a very fair and productive way.
I see your examples and I thanks you for that.

But here my comparison of PoW funnel smoke before and after, I am sure you can easily recognize the huge difference that cannot be caused by a damage on one funnel.
NOTE : On the photo Nh69724 on top, you see 2 salvoes smoke by PoW, one drifting in the wind, and not her funnel smoke that is close to be invisible

PoW_funnel_smoke_comparison.jpg

Than I see what you mean about Brooke, but we are comparing a narrative on a recent book with an official battle report written at time of the events by the responsible and the smoke screen statements are very clear and on the matter. There is no comparison as far as reliability of the information between the 2.

Here what the 3 German officers wrote about that smoke on PoW :

FO BUSCH on 1943 book Even the “Prince of Wales” has changed course after transiting the position of the sinking of her flagship, and she has turned hard to port. She shows bow left, then shortly thereafter bow right, and finally her stern, and seeks to flee at high speed. Ours as well as the “Bismarck’s” impacts remain right on target. Only once, during the rapid turning, did ours slip to the left as the white columns rise closely grouped next to the stern of the English battleship. Flames are observed aboard the opponent; he is on fire, and there is densely billowing smoke pouring from the ship’s hull, its funnels conceal the shape of the ship. “He burns and smokes or makes additional black fog!” I call out to the artillery officer. Then we observed the final salvoes from “Bismarck” and from “Prinz Eugen”, exceptionally closely grouped, impact behind the stern of the battleship. It is as if the fist of a giant had struck the water one more time with full force, to proclaim his dire threat and his warning. One perceives from the strange maneuvers of the “Prince of Wales” that the sinking of the flagship and the hits the ship had obtained itself, that someone has lost his head and could not quite figure out how to proceed next. Finally, it was decided to retreat and to rapidly escape from the horribly accurate fire of the “Bismarck”. “Like a bucking and spooked horse!” I say to the lieutenant, and I quickly turn the instrument to the left, where again the column of smoke at the site of the sinking of the “Hood” is recognizable as well as the small smoldering pile of wreckage that lies farther left and silently on the sea.

JASPER battle report Immediately thereafter, the opponent turned hard onto a reciprocal course (PoW turned away and on retreat ). He gave off black smoke and apparently tried to use this to escape from view. In my opinion, this smoke was artificial black fog and did not emanate from a (real) conflagration. The minimum distance at this time point was about 140 hectometers (14.000 meters).

SCHMALENBACH battle report After "Hood's" explosion and loss of forward motion, "King George" steamed between its [wreckage] and the German ships. His appearance was very blurred by thick smoke, so that, as was the case with "Hood", only shells falling short or hits could be observed. Muzzle flashes and flashes from detonating shells were difficult to differentiate. However, I am certain I observed one hit on the ship's aft portside superstructure after it had veered away sharply, perhaps, [due to the ship] rounding off too much (over-steering). I believe that another hit may have lodged in or near the aft stack, a possible explanation for the dense black smoke the ship [generated] while leaving the battlefield. I cannot judge who (Bismarck or Prinz Eugen) made these hits because I had turned (my attention) to the portside heavy flak battery's operations and also because a flying boat was reported during these (crucial) minutes.

As you can read for the German was out of discussion that PoW was turning away leaving the battlefield, with an order to turn to port 160 degrees, and with a smoke screen, and everything was done by 06.04 when Y turret ceased fire.

This of course is my opinion given the evidences.

Bye Antonio

We can see that Jasper and Schmalenbach don't quite agree as the cause of PoW's smoke:

SCHMALENBACH battle report ...I believe that another hit may have lodged in or near the aft stack, a possible explanation for the dense black smoke the ship [generated] while leaving the battlefield...

and the funnel hit, almost certainly increased PoW's volume and density of smoke.

and Jasper noted that PoW's smoke was still very dense after the action ended:

In addition, to port and far beyond the cruiser stood our opponent [Prince of Wales], who still gave off heavy black
smoke but had turned back to a parallel course. Farther left, a heavy column of smoke marked
the site where our first opponent [Hood] sank.

It seems to me that if PoW had begun a smoke screen at 0601:30, that it would have been a very good thing, and she would have avoided some the later hits made by PE.

[dunmunro]

FO BUSCH on 1943 book Even the “Prince of Wales” has changed course after transiting the position of the sinking of her flagship, and she has turned hard to port. She shows bow left, then shortly thereafter bow right, and finally her stern, and seeks to flee at high speed. Ours as well as the “Bismarck’s” impacts remain right on target. Only once, during the rapid turning, did ours slip to the left as the white columns rise closely grouped next to the stern of the English battleship. Flames are observed aboard the opponent; he is on fire, and there is densely billowing smoke pouring from the ship’s hull, its funnels conceal the shape of the ship. “He burns and smokes or makes additional black fog!” I call out to the artillery officer. Then we observed the final salvoes from “Bismarck” and from “Prinz Eugen”, exceptionally closely grouped, impact behind the stern of the battleship. It is as if the fist of a giant had struck the water one more time with full force, to proclaim his dire threat and his warning. One perceives from the strange maneuvers of the “Prince of Wales” that the sinking of the flagship and the hits the ship had obtained itself, that someone has lost his head and could not quite figure out how to proceed next. Finally, it was decided to retreat and to rapidly escape from the horribly accurate fire of the “Bismarck”. “Like a bucking and spooked horse!” I say to the lieutenant, and I quickly turn the instrument to the left, where again the column of smoke at the site of the sinking of the “Hood” is recognizable as well as the small smoldering pile of wreckage that lies farther left and silently on the sea.

Note here that Busch observed the boat deck fire and the extra density of PoW's funnel smoke after the funnel hit.

The 3rd bolded passage is most interesting, because, IMHO, it validates my hypothesis, that Leach turned away to open the range, turned back to reengage, then finally turned away under a smokescreen after Y turret jammed, but from Busch's perspective it must have seemed that PoW was acting as though the captain couldn't make up his mind on what to do.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Hello everybody,

very good discussion, I like it !

I see all your points my friend and you may have noticed that I shared ALL I have about it including the German officers description knowing that some of them could have opened additional doubts. But this is the way history analysis must be done, we should look at everything we have and only after having very carefully analyzed all the available information, we should present a good summary of them to the readers supported by as many evidences as we can in photos, film, maps and timing.

While I fully understand your points and respectfully of your opinion, I remain of my opinion supported by Capt Leach event sequence, PoW gunnery report, Jasper and my way to look at the photos.

The turn away was only one ( the first ), it started at 06.01 and 30 seconds more or less ( see PoW maps ) and was completed at 06.03 and 50 seconds, than Y turret ceased fire.

I think that Paul Cadogan explained and summarized very well why it could only be that way on one of his last post and I still fully agree with him about the reasons he listed.
If Capt Leach wanted to do what you think, he surely would have written those reasons, the fact that he did not speaks for itself.
The official records and his narrative are telling us another story, the real one.

Summarizing, I like to use the best narrative written about this events.
It was made by Capt. Russel Grenfell (RN) few years after the war.
Notice the absence of timing into the narrative, and the perfect explanation of the real reasons of everything that happened that morning.
I personally could not think about a more clear explanation myself on this moment if I need to write about those events, it seems to me just perfect as it is.
Adding the time on such a clear narrative is going to be a very simple exercise and by now any of us can do it easily I suppose.

Grenfell_01.jpg (88.42 KiB) Viewed 840 times

Grenfell_02.jpg (123.35 KiB) Viewed 840 times

Bye Antonio