Torpedoes on Bismarck???

Discussions about the history of the ship, technical details, etc.

Moderator: Bill Jurens

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Torpedoes on Bismarck???

Post by miro777 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:59 am

hey

hmmm, i got a question concerning the torpedoes on the Bismarck.
were there any?
i thought until this point that there were two sets of 4 torpedo sets on the Bismarck, until
yesterday i read in a book (the destruction of the Bismarck, by two canadian authors) that becuase of that the Bismarkc was supposed to fight enemy battleships, no torpedoes were put on the BIsmarck.
that's against all my previous knowledge.
SO how was it really?

thanx for ur input...

miro
Die See ruft....

User avatar
Matthias
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Mailand

Post by Matthias » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:17 am

No,Bismarck was not given of torpedo launching tubes...;)

About Tirpitz, which was given of two four-tubes apparatus placed under the aircraft cranes, look here:

http://www.kbismarck.com/tirpitz.html

;)
"Wir kämpfen bis zur letzten Granate."

Günther Lütjens

User avatar
Antonio Bonomi
Senior Member
Posts: 3800
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vimercate ( Milano ) - Italy

Torpedoes on Bismarck

Post by Antonio Bonomi » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:21 am

Ciao Miro,

NO torpedoes on Bismarck.

Only Tirpitz later on 1941 was equipped with 2 sets of 4 by 533 mm torpedo launching tubes.

Than on Brest on 1942 Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had 2 sets of 3 tubes each coming from Light cruisers.

The idea of mounting torpedo tubes on battleship was by Admiral Lutjens after Operation Berlin he conducted with Scharnhorst and Gneisenau on early 1941.
Better torpedo to sink merchant ships than main guns he correctly thought.

But Bismarck did not had the time to be equipped with torpedo tubes before sailing for Operation Rheinubung.

Prinz Eugen had 4 sets of 3 tubes, but even if for 2-3 minutes she had the chance to launch against the Prince of Wales from maximum range, the officer in command missed the time slot and did not launch any torpedo.

Prince of Wales turn would have allowed her to get read of the potential danger anyway.

But still Kpt Brinkmann ordered twice his Torpedo Officer (Ltnt Reimann ) to launch them,... unsuccesfully.

Ciao Antonio :D

User avatar
foeth
Supporter
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:19 am

Post by foeth » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:40 am

I considered it a serious mistake to mount torpedo tubes on a battleship. A small shell from a destroyer can set them off taking a large chunck out of your ship.

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by miro777 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:03 pm

hey
thanx. wow i always thought that the Bismarck had torpedoes.
hmm well i was wrong.
btw
wasn't the HMS Rodney, the first battleship to use torpedoes in combat (in the final battle agaisnt the Bismarck)?

well, i generally agree that battleships should not have torpedo tubes if they are not clearly constructed for sinking merchants.

adios
miro
Die See ruft....

User avatar
Matthias
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Mailand

Post by Matthias » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:35 pm

miro777 wrote: wasn't the HMS Rodney, the first battleship to use torpedoes in combat (in the final battle agaisnt the Bismarck)?
No, it was HMS Dorsetshire which torpedoed Bismarck.I don't think Rodney class battleships had torpedo tubes, isn't it?
"Wir kämpfen bis zur letzten Granate."

Günther Lütjens

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by miro777 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:33 pm

hey
i am pretty sure that the Rodney shot a torpedo at Bismarck.
I read that in the book by Muellenheim - rechenberg.
Pretty sure.
can someone confirm?

adios
miro
Die See ruft....

User avatar
foeth
Supporter
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:19 am

Post by foeth » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:39 pm

Aye, it's true

User avatar
Matthias
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:59 pm
Location: Mailand

Post by Matthias » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:52 pm

So, one evening I noticed that Rodney was equipped with two 609mm torpedo tubes.
I guess how I could have ignored it... :think:
"Wir kämpfen bis zur letzten Granate."

Günther Lütjens

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by miro777 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:25 pm

hey
lets now continue the thread
wat do u think to the suggestion from Luetjens to put torpedo tubes on all capital ships.
wouldn't it have been better to send a capital ship together with a torpedo equipped cruiser rather than putting torpedo tubes on the ship, where they can be dangerous?

adios
miro
Die See ruft....

Bgile
Senior Member
Posts: 3658
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:33 pm
Location: Portland, OR, USA

Post by Bgile » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:39 pm

I think it was generally agreed that torpedoes were too dangerous to mount on a battleship. Except for Lutjens, of course. I think all other navies got rid of them where they existed. The German case was somewhat unique since their battleships had a commerce raiding function.

Originally it was believed that Hood's torpedoes contributed to her demise.

Another potential hazard were aircraft, and US policy (not always followed) was to jettison them at the start of a gunnery battle.

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by miro777 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:26 pm

hey

another dangerous things on ships, although not exactly concerning battleships or the Bismarck, were mines!!!

The HK Pinguin had a ship load of mines in store and in her final battle a shell from HMS Cornwall hit that store room and u can all imagine wat happened?
she Blowed Up!!!

well
adios
miro
Die See ruft....

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Post by marcelo_malara » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:35 pm

After all, what is the idea of a battleship carrying torpedoes? Her main task is fighting other battleships and it would be dangerous for her to come within effective launching distance.

User avatar
miro777
Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Post by miro777 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:31 pm

hey
it seems to me to be an obious answer.
maybe it isn't
for the german ships, the torpedoes were meant to be to not use the much more valuable artillery, when sinking a merchant, but the torpedoes.

In enemy combat the torpedoes could have only have played a role, if all ammunitions owuld have been shot.

Yeah actually that's a good question:
Why did the HMS Rodney have Torpedoes????
She was NOT meant to cruise against enemy merchants!
SO why did she use them?

adios
miro
Die See ruft....

User avatar
marcelo_malara
Senior Member
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:14 pm
Location: buenos aires

Post by marcelo_malara » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:55 pm

Well I really don´t know why the British put TT on Nelson, it must be a heritage from WWI design.
But to sink a stopped merchant I would use secondary battery shells, not primary battery or torpedoes.
I believe that a torpedo is more expensive than a 15" shell, don´t forget it carries an engine, an air flask, a mechanism to keep course, and so on.

Post Reply