Naval History Forums

Today 71 years ago some 2,000 german sailors lost their lives in one of the most dramatic and meaningful naval actions of World War II. Three days before more than 1,000 british sailors shared this fate when Bismarck sunk the British capital vessel Hood and put Battleship Prince of Wales on the run.
There are many "heroe" ships in popular media nowadays, ships with "presidential citations" but which has never, ever, fought so desperate battles, never fought a surface action, never sunk anything, never endure such damage and never gave their ultimate sacrificy to the fatherland. There are a lot of misleading in TV documentaries and cheap military history magazines that try to make believe different from what happened three quarters of a century ago, even at the cost of their own allies of the time British, Soviet, etc.
However in forums like this one and in real research books and accounts (as Mullenheim Rechberg's one) the real "inconvinient thruth" is emerging.
If there was a hero ship that fought against a numerical superior enemies, that was hunted by battleships, battlecruisers, aircraft carriers, cruiser and destroyers and that never fought in a 1:1 situation, was Bismarck and Bismarck alone.
So, rest to the crews of Bismarck, Hood and those at PoW who also gave their real heroic lifes to the altar of Duty, Honor and Country. To the real Hero Ships.

Regards,

Yes Karl, I echo your thoughts on the enduring impact of this wonderful ship. And I use that term without apology.

Bismarck's extremely brief career - a comet flashing across the sky - was scintillating (an adjective I used with reference to the Denmark Strait battle thread).

Of course, there are people here who enjoy harping on about Bismatck's many many weaknesses... For goodness sake, what other capital ship has held us riveted to our seats for many years? (Dont answer that all you gainsayers!)

Equally, there are those who could speciously be termed fanboys.

In an olnline forum, isn't that the nature of the beast?

Anyhow, rest in peace all those that died on 24 and 27 June 1941.

Rest In Peace!

That nazi battleship did put on quite a chase. The outcome in the end was a good one, otherwise she probably would have interfered with supplies to our friends the Brits, which would have furthered the nazi cause.

thank goodness she was impotent when they caught up with her...

yellowtail3 wrote:That nazi battleship.... which would have furthered the nazi cause.
...

Herein lies a conundrum.

The crew and officers of this ''nazi battleship'' were not the fanatical followers of the Fuehrer that were the Waffen SS, some including Lutjens were of distant Jewish descent and not supporters of the NSDAP ideology.

The fact that the ship had swastikas painted on it and flew the swastika flag doesn't necessarily entitle the battleship itself to be called nazi, any more for example than the Graf Spee and Langsdorf, or the Atlantis and Rogge. Many of the KM officers and ratings went on to serve in the Federal West German Navy because they were like you and me - innocent of the crimes committed by Nazi Germany.

RF
This is a post from you which I can agree 100%
Regards
Ede

Meaning no disrespect to anyone, Nazi is term that is used whenever anyone talks about WWII German 'whatever". The sailors on Bismarck and other ships sailed under the banner that their country adopted and even if they despised the regime they served. As RF said many went on to serve the post war Federal government honorably! It is all typical of our society that is so emotionally shaped to know the difference and they use the handy labels that the media have fashioned-IMHO!

RF:

Herein lies a conundrum.

The crew and officers of this ''nazi battleship'' were not the fanatical followers of the Fuehrer that were the Waffen SS, some including Lutjens were of distant Jewish descent and not supporters of the NSDAP ideology.

The fact that the ship had swastikas painted on it and flew the swastika flag doesn't necessarily entitle the battleship itself to be called nazi, any more for example than the Graf Spee and Langsdorf, or the Atlantis and Rogge. Many of the KM officers and ratings went on to serve in the Federal West German Navy because they were like you and me - innocent of the crimes committed by Nazi Germany.

Correct. Calling "nazi battleship" looks like coming from the screenplay from a stupid Hollywood movie like U 571 or Unglorious Bastards or Red Tails. Rubbish.

ede144:

RF
This is a post from you which I can agree 100%
Regards
Ede

Agree 100% with both.

frontkampfer:

Meaning no disrespect to anyone, Nazi is term that is used whenever anyone talks about WWII German 'whatever". The sailors on Bismarck and other ships sailed under the banner that their country adopted and even if they despised the regime they served. As RF said many went on to serve the post war Federal government honorably! It is all typical of our society that is so emotionally shaped to know the difference and they use the handy labels that the media have fashioned-IMHO!

I like this frontkampfer guy. I have never read a post from him in which I disagree.

Karl Heidenreich wrote:Correct. Calling "nazi battleship" looks like coming from the screenplay from a stupid Hollywood movie like U 571 or Unglorious Bastards or Red Tails. Rubbish.

I know you don't like it, Karl, but fact is, Bismarck was a nazi battleship. Squirm and carp all you want, then have a look at her fantail and the flag she was flying - Nazi. Nazi battleship. nazi, nazi, nazi.

what's the big deal?

yellowtail3 wrote: I know you don't like it, Karl, but fact is, Bismarck was a nazi battleship. Squirm and carp all you want, then have a look at her fantail and the flag she was flying - Nazi. Nazi battleship. nazi, nazi, nazi.

what's the big deal?

This post is a complete ignorant insult to my post above. This sort of abuse the forum can do without.

This post is a complete ignorant insult to my post above. This sort of abuse the forum can do without.

Totally agree!

RF wrote:

yellowtail3 wrote: I know you don't like it, Karl, but fact is, Bismarck was a nazi battleship. Squirm and carp all you want, then have a look at her fantail and the flag she was flying - Nazi. Nazi battleship. nazi, nazi, nazi.
what's the big deal?

This post is a complete ignorant insult to my post above. This sort of abuse the forum can do without.

I disagree. Now I don't like using the term myself however the Wehrmacht was controled by the Nazi Government. Thus it is legitimate to refer to the units and equipment as Nazi even if many/most of the individuals weren't. On the otherhand the KM managed to a large extent to avoid the activities that earned the Nazi's their infamy so I prefer not to attach that label to them even if it is a legitimate usage.

If someone wants to use that term that is their perogative. Kind of like calling all things Soviet, Red or Commie!

frontkampfer wrote:If someone wants to use that term that is their perogative. Kind of like calling all things Soviet, Red or Commie!

Similar but more accurate as Red or Communist or "Commie" could equaly well refer to things that were Comunist Chinese, Vietnamese, Cuban, etc.

Yes, those also!