Did Bismarck offer surrender?

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RF
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Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:21 pm

An item in the latest edition of Warship International magazine contains an article about a book on the Bismarck about to be published. This book apparently claims that during the final battle on 27 May 1941 Bismarck's main armament ceased fire in order for the ship to be surrendered, and offers this as the explanation for the quick silencing of Bismarck's guns and the failure to land any hits on the British ships. The claims apparently come from a leading seaman who served on HMS Rodney.

If there was a move to surrender Bismarck, presumably the survivors would have some inkling of it? Why would the Baron have directed the after turrets fire on KGV if the order was to cease fire?

Is this just a journalistic angle to promote the sale of a new book?
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:21 pm

From the baron's or Kennedy's books there is no such claim or comment. I do not think that neither, Lutjens nor LIndeman, would have considered to surrender to their enemies.
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by behblc » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:00 pm

Put this one down to "the fog of war" .

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:03 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote:.....I do not think that neither, Lutjens nor LIndeman, would have considered to surrender to their enemies.
Given your previous stated opinions of Lutjens Karl, I think that was a significant statement.
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:21 pm

RF:
Given your previous stated opinions of Lutjens Karl, I think that was a significant statement.
I admit that my previous position on Lutjens was very harsh. He was having quite a responsability and was fighting against all odds (as the same Tovey put it) with a numerical superior enemy.

And, even if he was incompetent (which he wasn't) that doens't mean that he was a coward (Villeneuve style at least). I think that those comanding officers on Bismarck were brave guys.
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:21 am

Karl Heidenreich wrote: .

And, even if he was incompetent (which he wasn't) that doens't mean that he was a coward. I think that those comanding officers on Bismarck were brave guys.
Agreed.
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by lwd » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:59 pm

Me also, well stated.

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by behblc » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:08 pm

The authors view comes from the recollections of a British sailor , his letters to,and the replies received from B.M-R.

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:46 am

But not corroborated from anywhere else?
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by Patrick McWilliams » Mon May 30, 2011 2:13 pm

There have been several stories in the British press recently about so-called attempts made by Bismarck to surrender.

These suggest that members of the crew, scarcely with the authority of the ship's command, sent one or more messages in morse code and hoisted a black flag to request a truce.

I don't believe these claims but would be pleased to hear what colleagues think?

Regards,

Patrick
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/249 ... -surrender
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/249 ... -surrender
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -23159481/

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by tommy303 » Mon May 30, 2011 5:54 pm

Personally I rather doubt Bismarck attempted to surrender. About the closest to actual surrender came at the moment Commander Oels ordered the ship to be abandoned and scuttled. This came after it was no longer possible to contact the Lindemann on the command bridge nor Luetjens on the flag bridge and all guns had been put out of action. However, hoisting a black flag to my knowledge is not a universal signal of surrender--that would be a white flag--and in the context of the Royal Navy had completely opposite meaning to the white flag. In addition, there is testimony from both sides that Bismarck's battle ensign still flew at the time of her sinking, which would seem to indicate that no surrender had been requested.

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:33 am

I thought that the hoisting of a black flag by a ship indicated that plague or contagious life threatening disease was on board?

It would hardly encourage the picking up of survivors....
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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by Seekanone » Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:59 pm

If there was an offer to surrender, BISMARCK would have lowered her colors which she did not. It seems Brits love to enjoy the BISMARCK's end all in revenge for HMS HOOD. Brits still cannot bear the thought of HMS HOOD being sunk so easily.
Face it folks, such is war and anytime a ship radios, "we shall fight to the last shell, long live the Fuehrer," it indicates a willingness to fight to the very end.
These authors are rather trying to trump up sales with distortions and untruths. Of course Britain sank the BISMARCK, but she was not about to surrender to the RN. :dance:

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by Karl Heidenreich » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:28 pm

Seekanone:
If there was an offer to surrender, BISMARCK would have lowered her colors which she did not. It seems Brits love to enjoy the BISMARCK's end all in revenge for HMS HOOD. Brits still cannot bear the thought of HMS HOOD being sunk so easily.
Face it folks, such is war and anytime a ship radios, "we shall fight to the last shell, long live the Fuehrer," it indicates a willingness to fight to the very end.
These authors are rather trying to trump up sales with distortions and untruths. Of course Britain sank the BISMARCK, but she was not about to surrender to the RN.
:ok:
An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Did Bismarck offer surrender?

Post by RF » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:45 am

Seekanone wrote:It seems Brits love to enjoy the BISMARCK's end all in revenge for HMS HOOD. Brits still cannot bear the thought of HMS HOOD being sunk so easily.
This is pure propaganda and fiction.
''Give me a Ping and one Ping only'' - Sean Connery.

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