Naval History Forums

All, Sometime ago I observed to Antonio your own new North-Up representation of Diagram B on July 28th shows Norfolk approaching on a heading of 270T degrees when Holland was on 280T making the closing rate of 24 knots necessary to achieve 10 miles by 06:00 (from 14 miles bearing 220 at 05:50) utter...

Hello Marc, Do you agree with me that when Pinchin derived a lat and long from his estimated position and then drew some lat long grid elements to fit it on his plot, the latter incorporated his navigational error? So the lat long grid Antonio has drawn is also mispositioned compared with reality. T...

Hello Antonio, Does it not occur to you that since D7 happens earlier than D6 they cannot possibly be real bearings, unrecorded in Norfolk's log, because they do not sequence chronologically? These are probably just Pinchin's workings struggling toward the most likely solution which he presented as ...

Hi Antonio, I presume you mean this observation? But Pinchin made a modification to what Capt Ellis wrote, ... he moved Suffolk track to North of something like 5 to 6 sea miles as you can see, ... moving North A2 to A1 and B2 to B1 ... enlarging the battlefield for Suffolk by moving her away to Nor...

Hi Dave, Since the visibility that morning was phenomonally good, with mirage effects possibly extending line of sight over the horizon, I believe both cruisers were using visual range shadowing techniques only. During the night and snowstorm conditions, radar had been vital, but it was risky being ...

Hello Antonio, It is a measure of your dedication to the concept of there being a true precise, unambiguous navigation solution available to the British (ie no German input) in 1941 , which was then somehow monstrously distorted for nefarious purposes by a conspiracy reaching from humble lieutenants...

Hello Antonio, I am disappointed, but not surprised that when I ask Please plot 195T and 16 miles from the 05:42 position to derive the Point 3 Ellis actually had for Bismarck's location. It's actually SW of point B isn't it? (And I made an error earlier because Bismarck is too far east, not west ) ...

Hello Antonio, We are are still obviously talking at cross purposes. Lets run through it again on your Copy of Wadinga_Sean_trial_02.jpg :D At 05:22 Suffolk sees Bismarck at At 05:22 Suffolk reported 0520 (B). Enemy bore 203°, 15 miles, possibly increasing speed; and shortly afterwards altered cours...

Hello Antonio, Once again you have misunderstood and your plotting incorporates a fatal flaw. On Wadinga_Sean_trial_02 the plotted position for Bismarck from Suffolk is incorrect. Why? You have not read my explanation of what Ellis says thoroughly. It is difficult because he is writing a very short ...

All,

See what happens when you get worked up................

"Ellis did not miswrite 208 for 280,"

All the best

wadinga

Hi Antonio, Speaking of not knowing what one is talking about........ You said do not be so surprised ... it is surely NOT the biggest or the most evident error I have found during those years ... just read back Capt Ellis writing at 05.42 the enemy was on bearing 280° True instead of 208° True for ...

All, Sorry to be catching up but I have been travelling recently. Antonio has asked: Do I have certain documents and the answer is no. I have not been to the PRO as he has, but I would not need to if he would show corroborating evidence which is Crown Copyright and therefore available to all. He als...

Hi Francis, According to "Send her Victorious" by Michael Apps on 14th August 12 Albacores of 832 flew on from Campbeltown followed by 9 of 817 the following day. One Albacore was lost 3rd September raiding off the Norwegian coast.There was no mention of any other losses before 10th Oct, b...

Hi All, Thanks Duncan Succinctly put. :D We know Suffolk was reporting positions over 14 miles in error so when Pinchin needed to put her in about the right place, he took her track and located it by her position relative to Norfolk via the 06:20 bearing. If she had been positioned using her reporte...

Hi Paul, Or should I call you Your Honour ............... I am sure you are right with Could that be interpreted that PoW initially joined Norfolk at 1.5 miles at 0434 and then was subsequently ordered out to 5 miles distance at 0440? Of course if PoW is 1 point 5 miles behind Norfolk then point C o...