Search found 421 matches

by hans zurbriggen
Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:18 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "what the type 284 must have been reporting was the range to Bismarck, but the AFCT team must have rejected that range" This is just one possibility/supposition, no proof. Other possibility is that operator did not pass any range different from 25.000 yards to T.S. This second p...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:50 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hi Byron, "Her target echo would have been constantly changing in strength as she transitioned back and forth from an end-on aspect to a broadside aspect." you are absolutely right. This aspect may have had an influence on the "intermittent" echo received by 284, at least over 21...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:48 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "No. He could not transmit a range where there was no target!" Instead of underlying personal speculations with pointless screams, I would kindly suggest to post evidences that AFCT was actually fed with a different range than 25.000 yards, (25.000 is range clearly implied by KG...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:02 pm
Forum: Hypothetical Naval Scenarios
Topic: Fast Battleship League Table
Replies: 169
Views: 78934

Re: Fast Battleship League Table

Hello Frank, you write: "NC could penetrate Tirpitz belt (320mm+120mm@68°= >600mm @ ~6km" I think you should add also 45 mm armor grade steel for the Ww torpedo bulkhead, even if their contribution would be possibly just against splinters, due to combined angle of impact. On other side, I ...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:35 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Byron,
most interesting, especially re. refraction and interpretation of radar panel echoes.

hans
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:28 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, according to KGV GAR (https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4164), the 284 operator " continued to look for Bismarck at round about 25.000 yards ". Therefore he could only have transmitted this range pressing his footswitch when getting a range of around 25.000 ya...
by hans zurbriggen
Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:17 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Byron, thanks for your data, confirming that 284 (in 1941 version) was considered able to reliably and profitably track enemy at no more than around 20.000 yards (max). The point here is not 284 technical capability to detect (under exceptional / occasional conditions) an echo over 20.000 yard...
by hans zurbriggen
Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:11 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "Paragraphs 18 and 19 refer to the ranges supplied by Type 279 radar not 284." Correct, however it means that R.D/F ranges were not passed automatically to T.S. and not entered automatically into AFCT. It was a choice, first of radar operator, and then of T.S. personnel to do so...
by hans zurbriggen
Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:47 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, "...as each new radar range was noted, it would be transmitted to the AFCT, ..." This is possibly not the case. KGV GAR, chapter "Ratekeeping", explains that, on two other instances, either radar ranges were not reflected into plot because AFCT operators did not trust ...
by hans zurbriggen
Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:40 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, we have for KGV a long GAR + Enclosures but we don't have the most valuable Salvo Plot (luckily, we have it for PoW on May 24 and for Rodney on May 27), with all exact gun ranges, gun bearings, enemy inclination and precise fire timing from T.S., marked salvo by salvo. Salvo plot could ha...
by hans zurbriggen
Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:55 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, 284 radar got echos from Bismarck (even from 25.100 yards) and from all ships' fall of shots, but operator was unable to distinguish and " continued to look for Bismarck round about 25.000 yards " (https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4164). Only " at 08:53 ...
by hans zurbriggen
Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:00 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello all, this for reference from KGV GAR. 284 got target at 25.100 yards. Then 284 operator mistook Rodney's splashes as KGV's (and insisted on wrong range of 25.000 yards). First "corrected" range (unclear whether radar or optical) came only at 08:53 and it was 20.500 yards. Therefore f...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:16 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Mr. TTTT, German survivors accounts are reported by both Brennecke (who summarized several survivors accounts) and Baron von Müllenheim-Rechberg (G.O. and survivor himself). They both say that it was Rodney that hit Bismarck fore turrets. While Baron reports one generically decisive hit on Bis...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 10, 2023 5:44 pm
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Mr. TTTT, I would say that first straddles/hits came from both British ships at just around 09:00, with range already down to 20.000 yards for Rodney and 18.000-19.000 yards for KGV. KGV reports claim that flagship straddled and actually achieved a hit at 08:54, however this is very unlikely b...
by hans zurbriggen
Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:38 am
Forum: Bismarck General Discussion
Topic: How close was the final battle?
Replies: 256
Views: 2223803

Re: How close was the final battle?

Hello Mr. TTTT, you are right: Germans were quite surprised not to receive any hit in the first minutes of battle (see Baron's account). Re. a single hit disabling both fore turrets, this is unlikely but not impossible (e.g. French designers over-separated turrets 1 and 2 of Richelieu's just to avoi...