Naval History Forums

Hi Frank, one general comment on BB league "rules": I feel up to now too much emphasis has been given to radar contribution to final result. I had got this feeling already (especially for daylight confrontations) but last "match" reinforced it. It is true that end war radars (esp...

Hello all, I feel everything has been well documented. I won't answer anymore to screams (repeated annoying "!"), speculations (sold as truth) and hindsights (" we now know... ") that have nothing to do with what is clearly written in GAR and Enclosures re. actual KGV personnel e...

Hello all, this is my two cents opinion (I don't pretend to be right) of what might have happened at (e.g.) 08:50 on KGV 284 panel (based on analysis of Rodney's GAR and salvo plot, KGV GAR and its enclosures and estimated Bismarck course/range rate). Thanks to Byron for providing link I used for ex...

Hello all, "we now know that Type 284 could not produce a radar echo from a salvo at that range" This is not what is written in GAR and usage of this aftermath info is supposition. Please let's try to stick to evidences: 284 radar operator reported fall of shot of first salvo as short, thu...

Hello all, "what the type 284 must have been reporting was the range to Bismarck, but the AFCT team must have rejected that range" This is just one possibility/supposition, no proof. Other possibility is that operator did not pass any range different from 25.000 yards to T.S. This second p...

Hi Byron, "Her target echo would have been constantly changing in strength as she transitioned back and forth from an end-on aspect to a broadside aspect." you are absolutely right. This aspect may have had an influence on the "intermittent" echo received by 284, at least over 21...

Hello all, "No. He could not transmit a range where there was no target!" Instead of underlying personal speculations with pointless screams, I would kindly suggest to post evidences that AFCT was actually fed with a different range than 25.000 yards, (25.000 is range clearly implied by KG...

Hello Frank, you write: "NC could penetrate Tirpitz belt (320mm+120mm@68°= >600mm @ ~6km" I think you should add also 45 mm armor grade steel for the Ww torpedo bulkhead, even if their contribution would be possibly just against splinters, due to combined angle of impact. On other side, I ...

Hello Byron,
most interesting, especially re. refraction and interpretation of radar panel echoes.

hans

Hello all, according to KGV GAR (https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4164), the 284 operator " continued to look for Bismarck at round about 25.000 yards ". Therefore he could only have transmitted this range pressing his footswitch when getting a range of around 25.000 ya...

Hello Byron, thanks for your data, confirming that 284 (in 1941 version) was considered able to reliably and profitably track enemy at no more than around 20.000 yards (max). The point here is not 284 technical capability to detect (under exceptional / occasional conditions) an echo over 20.000 yard...

Hello all, "Paragraphs 18 and 19 refer to the ranges supplied by Type 279 radar not 284." Correct, however it means that R.D/F ranges were not passed automatically to T.S. and not entered automatically into AFCT. It was a choice, first of radar operator, and then of T.S. personnel to do so...

Hello all, "...as each new radar range was noted, it would be transmitted to the AFCT, ..." This is possibly not the case. KGV GAR, chapter "Ratekeeping", explains that, on two other instances, either radar ranges were not reflected into plot because AFCT operators did not trust ...

Hello all, we have for KGV a long GAR + Enclosures but we don't have the most valuable Salvo Plot (luckily, we have it for PoW on May 24 and for Rodney on May 27), with all exact gun ranges, gun bearings, enemy inclination and precise fire timing from T.S., marked salvo by salvo. Salvo plot could ha...

Hello all, 284 radar got echos from Bismarck (even from 25.100 yards) and from all ships' fall of shots, but operator was unable to distinguish and " continued to look for Bismarck round about 25.000 yards " (https://www.kbismarck.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4164). Only " at 08:53 ...